EVO- Pancreatitis? Kidney trouble?

I know how you feel.  Food allergies and slight kidney problems here.  Ideally, I would lower my guys protein to around 20% total for all foods.  However, that involves home cooking, which I can't do at this time due to severe back problems.  Tested on a mostly all meat diet, their kidney values were pre-renal.  Tested later on kibble, they were in the range allocated;however, it was right at the top end of the range - again bordering on pre-renal, if had been just a few points higher.
 
I finally went back to California Natural.  They had large poops the first week, so I added digestive enzymes for about two weeks.  Now their poops are small without the digestive enzymes. Out of the many foods I have tried, these seems to be the best for my guys so far with the food allergies.
 
Overall, I think it's good to stay away from high protein. A lot of people on this board seem to think they need mostly meat, but from what research and real life experience, and the advice of Callie - which is always subperb- I now believe a low protein diet is best.   Also, my girl doesn't like to drink water.  I have to entice her with added canned food (or ricotta cheese is great if no dairy allergies).

Thanks for your input chasza. [] That's really interesting the results of blood tests when your dogs were eating the mostly meat diet, vs. a regular kibble. Definitely food for thought- no pun intended! That's good that you found a food that works! California Natural is definitely one to consider....
 
I've also gotten advice from Callie which was great! I had been leaning towards thinking Gingerbread had food allergies, but per Callie's instructions I've been paying close attention to when he starts itching. I've noticed that one of the biggest times is when he wakes up from laying under the computer desk. Well, yesterday I got out the vacuum and noticed that there in the utility room was a very dusty vent which connects RIGHT to where Gingerbread was laying. I went and looked on the other side and noticed that the computer cords and carpet by the wall were dusty. So I'm thinking it's very possible that dust is a huge culprit in Gingerbread's allergies. I vacuumed it all the best I could and I think I'm going to look into one of the Febreze formulas for allergens.
 
So anyway, since I'm thinking that Gingerbread's allergies are most likely inhalant to things like dust, I'm thinking Timberwolf Organics is the best choice. At least their ingredients all seem to be excellent and very different from all the others with herbs, walnut oil, etc. The protein and fat levels are moderate (around 25% and 15%) and when I had a sample of the Southwest Chicken and Herbs before it even smelled appetizing.
 
I'm still really interested in more opinions on the possible connection between foods like Innova EVO and pancreatitis/kidney disease!

OK, well from what I understand from my vet, the foods will not CAUSE these conditions but if the dog is prone to them or already has them it could make them worse. 

Actual scientific studies have shown that, in a healthy young dog, high protein levels do not stress the kidneys. But through illness, age, or both, kidneys can become weak and not as readily able to process protein.
 
For example, my cat, who lived almost 17 years on Purina's DeliCat. At about 16, she was diagnosed with diminished kidney function by our vet. That is someone who went to school and studied this stuff and has been a vet for about as long as I have been alive and I am an old fart. As opposed to someone else who's read anti-kibble websites for a year. Anyway, a by-product of consuming animal protein is the release of nitrogen, which is then filtered out by the kidneys and passes out of the body in urine. When the kidneys can't do so well, the nitrogen backs up in the bloodstream, similar to the "bends," and creates lethargy and nausea. The doctor then had me feed her Purina NF (kidney formula) and she lasted about another year. She simply got old. I expect, if I reach 120 years of age, I may have a few problems with some of my organs, too.
 
The same could be said for a dog. OTOH, dogs fed too much protein and fat can become obese and then suffer maladies from the obesity, which may in turn lead to kidney problems. That is, the protein itself is not harming the kidneys but other problems may impact the kidneys which can then have problems processing the protein.

 So I'm thinking it's very possible that dust is a huge culprit in Gingerbread's allergies. I vacuumed it all the best I could and I think I'm going to look into one of the Febreze formulas for allergens.

 
  Jessie has had the blood and skin tests for allergies and one of the things she's allergic to is dust so there's at least a chance your pup is too. The tip that Callie gave about noticing when your dog is itchy is a good one. The thing about allergies is they put a strain on the immune system and Jessie is very allergic to several outdoor and indoor allergens. I try to support her immune system by feeding her the best food I can. I wanted to try  T.O. but was leary for the same reasons you were. The problems happened when they were relocating back in February so things should be settled down now.  The ingredients they use seem better than most kibbles and I like their protein levels too; Jessie is allegic to chicken and they have several formulas without chicken that look good, so I'm thinking about giving T.O. a try. By the way; I love your avatar; that's such a sweet picture.

Thank you Jessies mom! He's my little angel.... although he was a little devil today, but that's another story! [] As far as TO, I really like the variety of formulas they have also. Definitely a lot of formulas that don't have chicken- the Elk and Bison varieties both look really good. We'll have to keep each other posted on our dogs' progress!

Ron, I see what you're saying about the high protein food not necessarily causing kidney problems, but exacerbating a condition that's already there. After thinking it over though, I would be more comfortable with feeding him a food that isn't high in protein and fat so there's no extra strain on his kidneys and liver. Same reason he doesn't get a raw diet, greenies, rawhide etc. Worry wart RIGHT here! []

I've had my dogs' bloodwork tested within the past six months while they were on Evo and the results came back with normal levels, including my senior who recently turned 13 years old. At that time, they had been eating Evo for at least five months.

While reading this thread, I remembered that you were looking for grain free foods previously and it occured to me that there was another grain free food that you could try: Timberwolf Organics Ocean Blue.

They've recently removed the amaranth and since Gingerbread does well on TO anyway, you may want to consider it. FWIW, I've tried Ocean Blue (when there was amaranth) and the dogs liked it. The dogs did ok on it, just not as well as they did on Evo.

the idea that high protein diets damages the kidneys came from some studies done on RATS. In dogs high protein diets don't "stress" the kidneys. In fact, some studies on dogs who actually HAD kidney disease found the dogs did much better on a higher protein diet than on the traditional reduced protein diet given to such dogs. Other studies have shown that dogs in general are much healthier if fed a diet with at least 30% protein dry weight. Most foods have insufficient protein to maintain a dog in optimal health.
Fat, though, that can trigger pancreatitis in certain dogs. Depends on the individual dog how much fat the dog can handle.

sakura- Thanks for the suggestion and for remembering Gingerbread and I. [] The Ocean Blue could be an option, but I'm not sure about one of the ingredients- potassium chloride being so high on the ingredient list. When Gingerbread had bloodwork done at 6 months old his potassium level was high. We retested a few days later and it was normal, but his vet thinks it was food related...... so I try to stay away from foods where potassium is high on the ingredient list.
 
mudpuppy- Thank you for the info also, now I'm officially pulling my hair out though! [&:] The different information out there about protein levels couldn't be any more conflicting. Since pancreatitis definitely could be an issue and since I haven't seen any foods over 28% protein that didn't also have high fat levels, I think I'm going to stick with a food in the 25-28% protein range, add a little chicken and call it a day. []

We'll have to keep each other posted on our dogs' progress

 
  Luvntzus; After looking at what it would cost I've decided not to order T.O. but to stay with Eagle Pack Holistic; I rotate the Fish, Duck, and Lamb. It would cost at least $33 for a 16.5 lb. bag of T.O. since I'd have to order it and I get Eagle Pack locally for about $22. I don't think it's that much better than Eagle Pack to make it worth the extra cost. Also, according to Mordanna's website, the T.O. runs 550 K/cal and higher per cup; 
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  I feed Jessie 3 times a day because she has allergies and I've read about some studies that show if a dog is fed multiple times a day to keep their blood sugar level from dropping their allergies don't bother them as much. Jessie is 62 pounds and I feed her 2 and a half cups of Eagle Pack a day for about 900 K/cal; if I fed a food as high in calories as T.O. the portions would be too small to divide into 3 parts. I hope Gingerbread does well on the T.O. ; keep us posted about how your dog does on it.

Yikes, that's really expensive!! I wouldn't order it online either, the shipping costs are crazy for something like food. I'm really lucky that my petstore is about half a mile away and sells TO. Plus Gingerbread is really small, I'm thinking the 4 lb bag lasts about a month.
 
That's really interesting about the blood sugar/allergy connection. The high amount of calories in TO is good for him also, I'm having a hard time getting him to put on weight. I can feel his ribs and backbone way too easily. So the small kibble size and high calorie content in TO is really perfect for him.
 
It sounds like the Eagle Pack is better for Jessie with the calories and availability of the food. I guess this is why different foods work for different dogs. It's good that there's so much variety out there!
 
I'm going to the store later today to pick up the TO, still have to decide which variety to get, but I guess it's not the "end all be all" because I'm going to rotate them anyway. []