Innova Evo

Yes, when Willow was on Evo she had horrible constipation issues.  It's the bone.  I eventually had to take her off it because she was so uncomfortable when she tried to "go". 

I have heard of problems with gas while on EVO...that might make sense if it is causing constipation issues.  If there is blood in the stool (and it is random like you say), it is probably due to over-straining.   You could try switching to a different food and see if it helps....if it does you know the food was the culprit.  I think that is the only way to know for sure. 

Make sure your dog is getting plenty of fluids with the food.  I used to soak the kibbles in warm (not hot) water.  You can also include a natural fiber source like green beans or pumpkin to increase bowel activity and keep water in the gi longer.  The EVO is so very, very concentrated that I'm not surprised to hear of problems with "lazy bowels" - the canine gi tract is made to process a lot of junk, after all.  The opposite problem can happen with the high kcals and low fiber - it's very easy to overestimate what your dogs need.

I love EVO and it's done wonderful things with my hard-to-keep working dogs - but it seems like the canine version of rocket fuel, inappropriate for many dogs.   Unfortunately I see a lot of people getting turned off premium foods in general after a bad experience with EVO.

I love EVO and it's done wonderful things with my hard-to-keep working dogs

 
This was similar to a point I was going to make. In the case of sled dogs (working) they will feed foods that range in the 30s for protein and 20s for fat. So, Evo could be too rich for some dogs that are not working hard. So, in a meal serving where one cuts back on the amount of Evo and adds in other things such as pumpkin or whatever, you are effectively lowering the percentage of protein in that serving. Dogs fed more protein and fat than they can use will either get rid of it or get fat.

Interesting read. I just started feeding Gingerbread Innova EVO yesterday. I did notice that his stools are small and hard, but he doesn't seem to be straining. I would think that any issues from feeding EVO would be the same as feeding a raw diet because of the bone and higher protein level.

actually, in dogs, high levels of protein have never been shown to cause any health problems. Most dog foods have insufficient protein. A number of studies have shown that dogs fed diets with less than 30% protein (dry weight) are much more prone to injury and have poor muscle development compared to dogs fed 30% protein or higher. The "usual" protein %'s in the 20's  you see on most commercial foods are based on the fact that if you put a dog in a cage and feed him 18% protein for six months he won't drop dead.
Wet raw diets have around 30% protein. If you dehydrate a good balanced wet raw diet, you end up with 40 to 50% protein dry weight, similar to Evo's level. I personally think Evo has way too much calcium in it and won't feed it for that reason.

Actually, with properly balanced raw, the gi has lots of natural nutrients to amuse it:  whole tissues come with their own fluids, long chain amino acids come from the whole connective tissues, bone as you mention is pretty much broken down in the stomach but yields lots of goodies to interest the intestines (mineral content is balanced with lipids found in the marrow).  Depending on the raw approach you might be getting skin, feathers or hair, and other whole tissues that a concentrated, preprocessed kibble doesn't offer.

I think that if your dog isn't sensitive to any of the ingredients, you could probably make EVO work just fine.  I do think people ought to be aware that it's less like actual raw, and more like those science fiction movies where they take one tablet and that's a meal with all the trimmings and dessert.  []

We had the opposite problems, we had continuous loose stools.  After switching off of EVO (which in every other way seemed to be fine) the loose stools stopped and things were back to normal.  The interesting thing was that we switched from EVO to a raw diet, so I don't think it was neccessarily the amount of protein, but I couldn't tell you what it was!

ORIGINAL: brookcove  The opposite problem can happen with the high kcals and low fiber - it's very easy to overestimate what your dogs need.

 
Be careful what you read friends, and a key word here is can happen, but this is a very misleading statement.  The dogs body is perfectly 100% capable of proper stool formation on low fiber diets and high Cals.  My dog is living proof of this and many other dogs as well.  I feed 650 Cals per cup and not more than 1% fiber, and my dog has perfect stool formation, each and every poop!  The amount of Cals has nothing to do with the equation, only what is needed for consumption.  For example, my dog at 35-40 lbs requires about 1 cup per day at 650 cals.  If I fed 1300 Cals per cup, she would only need about 1/2 a cup.
1950 Cals, then she would require only a 1/3 of a cup.  Any sudden adjustments in diet can lead to a disruption of the system, however after a the transition to the newer diet, the dogs body will adjust just fine.  If you have problems with a diet after giving 2 weeks of transition, then the ingredients of that diet are at fault, but not from a lack of fiber or too many Cals.
 
Charlie
 
 

Charlie, my point was that it is easy to over or underestimate your dog's needs with a food that is highly concentrated.  Of course one would always make the final judgment based on the performance of the dog.

A food like EVO may be unjustly blamed for being too "rich" many times when it may simply be inaccurate measurement or estimation of feeding amounts.  Actually, that's true for many premium foods.

evo is nothing like a raw diet. Evo is dehydrated meat and potatoes. A raw diet isn't dehydrated and rarely contains potatoes or any significant quantity of carbohydrates. I think Evo may, due to its high potato content and processing of the meat, be TOO digestible. Nothing left to turn into poop. Probably best to feed it supplemented with fresh veggies and meat. Or try one of the other no-grain kibbles now on the market.
The dog's colon doesn't use fiber like a human colon does. Studies have shown that feeding fiber to dogs does not speed transit time through the colon. Lots of raw feeders feed very low fiber diets and don't end up with constipated dogs.  Many commercial dog foods actually add chemicals and things like beet pulp in order to produce consistently firm but not too firm poops because humans don't like dogs with diarrhea or dogs with constipation. I've always suspected if you removed these ingredients many dogs fed these brands would have horribly liquid feces. Of course since the poop quality has been tinkered with, you have no clue as to how well the dog is actually digesting the food.  I personally don't believe "rich" foods cause diarrhea in dogs-- I think poor digestion of the food causes diarrhea. Which can be caused by overfeeding, poor food quality, too much indigestible material (such as fiber and grains), or dog simply doesn't tolerate certain ingredients in the food.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy: evo is nothing like a raw diet.

 
There is a lot of truth in this statement.  In all honesty, I don#%92t want to sound negative toward EVO, I have never used the product but I have always been under the impression the line, “when you can#%92t feed raw”, is really a marketing strategy/gimmick.  I am not a raw feeder, but I don#%92t really think any kibble feed can actually compare to that of a true “raw” diet.  When I think of the words ‘raw diet#%92, I tend to think of Mutual of Omaha#%92s Wild Kingdom.  A lot of you may not know or remember the show, but it was one of those nature shows when the lion is bearing down on the gazelle then enjoying the meal.  I just can#%92t picture a kibble (any kibble) cutting the mustard in that respect.  EVO, although seemingly marketed as a carnivore targeted style feed, one look at the ingredients list and it is evident, this feed falls into the omnivore style of feeding…and that is perfectly fine if that is what you want out of the food and you are satisfied with results.
 

  The dog's colon doesn't use fiber like a human colon does. Studies have shown that feeding fiber to dogs does not speed transit time through the colon. Lots of raw feeders feed very low fiber diets and don't end up with constipated dogs. 

 
Again, good point and right on the money.  Fiber is added to dog food because the manufacture must slow down the transit time for fear of diarrhea.  If they didn#%92t no one would purchase the product.   They have to add fiber because most kibbles (even premium) have so many improper ingredients for the dogs needs.  The dogs body knows what it needs and automatically attempts to rush improper ingredients (fruits, vegetables, plants) through the system rather quickly.  Therefore, fiber becomes a necessity for improperly structured diets.
 
Charlie

Becca,
I would just like to say, I love your avatar pic!  What a good looking dog you have.  We may not be on the same page as far as our thinking goes and you can probably tell EVO wouldn't be something I would be interested in trying...but I give credit where credit is due!  Must be working well for you because the dog looks really good.
 
How do you find EVO feeding tables in relationship to your dogs needs?  Do you find the tables fairly accurate in those regards?  I realize during periods of higher activity and stress you may find your dog eating slightly higher than the tables indicate, but for the most part, do the feeding guidelines correspond pretty close?
 
Charlie

I'm not much help on the nutrition discussion here.... just wanted to add that I had to change my dog off of evo because of the consitpation issue, she had very dark, hard rabbit turd stools all day, without one good big one.  This was even after giving her a long time on the food for an healthy adjustment and also supplementing with some pumpkin and cooked carrots.