Ingredients in some foods- truth or not

Brewer's Rice - [linkhttp://www.iei.net/~ebreeden/kibble.html]http://www.iei.net/~ebreeden/kibble.html[/link]

AAFCO - Brewer's Rice is the small milled fragments of rice kernels that have been separated from the larger kernels of milled rice.

Natura will not use it because they state it is a "lower quality rice product that is missing many of the nutrients found in Ground Rice and Ground Brown Rice." Solid Gold says that it is sweepings from the floor of the mill.

Beet Pulp:
In summary, beet pulp is considered to be an excellent fiber source in most commercial pet foods. The addition of beet pulp to commercial dog and cat food is widespread, but the actual amount eaten per day is quite small. Beet pulp is rarely the only available fiber source; as a rule, a variety of fiber sources that cross all ranges of fermentability and solubility are recommended. In addition to being a good fiber source, beet pulp may have a slight advantage over some other fiber sources because of its benefit to the intestinal bacteria that help maintain colon health.

Sorghum; This study indicates that it's used in dog food for firmer stools;
[linkhttp://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/6/1704S]http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/6/1704S[/link]

Salt;
Sodium is found in fluids outside the tissue cells and performs a function similar to potassium. It is usually found in the diet as sodium chloride -- salt -- and is rarely deficient. Excess sodium has been linked to hypertension in dogs.

Thanks, your definitions are what I've been reading. But it seems like their food has some unecessary ingredients, but I'm not totally sure yet.

I honestly don't have a problem with beet pulp or brewers rice....even though they are fragments of the rice, they are a good fiber and still contain some nutrients.  When paired with whole rice, it can be very beneficial

Eagle Packs definition of a few of these:
Dried Egg Product-we use complete whole egg from a farm producing for human use. Some brands use broken eggs, or yolks and whites which are later recombined, and called Dried Egg product. AAFCO forces us to use that term but our egg is whole, human grade egg.
Beet Pulp - a prebiotic from sugar beets with the sugar removed. Used correctly, beet pulp is the single source of dietary fiber shown to provide good stool characteristics without significantly decreasing nutrient digestibility.
Brewers Rice - This is broken pieces of human grade rice used in the manufacture of food and beverages.
Salt - Our salt is  naturally derived. Only a minimum amount is added to meet government requirements.

Back before I really knew a whole lot about holistic foods and good ingredients I considered being a distributor for Life's Abundance. After learning what I have over the last year I decided they were not the quality of food that I would like to represent and I couldn't sell it with a good conscience. Their answers to you are alot of BULL. Almost nothing that they told you is true. They're just trying to justify some of the crap ingredients they're using and making themselves look good by putting doubt in your mind about other foods. That is total crap about food not being 100% complete if they remove the menadione. That's a complete lie. Vitamin K should come from natural sources such as kelp, spinach, spirulina and other cruciferous green veggies.  Brewer's rice IS sweepings from the brewery floor, egg product can include any part of the egg... even undeveloped embryos and potato product can be dangerous because it can contain peels and eyes which are toxic to dogs. LA is a "hype" food. This Dr. Jane Bicks is about as bad as the guy from Wysong.  Toot their own horns and slam everyone else when their foods are NOT the best quality out there.

Asthefurflies- I could not agree with you more! [] When I first started researching foods I thought Life's Abundance looked really good. Now when I read the ingredients list I wonder what I was smoking at the time! lol I guess at first it's overwhelming trying to make sense of all the ingredients.... then when you read all the marketing hype on the website, well it's easy to fall for the bs.

I totally agree also about Wysong, a few years ago I thought it was a really good food. I never did feed it, but it was on my "list" of foods I considered to be good. Now their ingredients make me run the other way! Below is the ingredient list for their maintenance formula. How many common allergens could they pack into one food!?
 
Ingredients:
Chicken, Ground Corn, Ground Wheat, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Oat Groats, Poultry Fat, Ground Extruded Whole Soybeans, Dried Whey, Salt, Yeast Culture, Lecithin, Natural Extractives of Cloves, Sage, and Rosemary, Dried Kelp, Garlic, Black Pepper, Artichoke, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement. 

I'm not positive how you guys decide what you think is good good or not, and of course we don't all agree on what we would want to feed. BUT taken from the website of Linda Arndt, who has studied pet food and is a consultant has a list of food that she would recommend. Both of the above mentioned are on that list. Lifes Abundance and Wysong.  Here is what she says on how she made up that list:

This is a list of quality foods I have in my feed programs for my puppy buyers. They are listed here based on my own criteria of:

• Feed trial results
  
• Laboratory tests on guaranteed anaylsis
  
• Philosophy of the company
  
• Ethics of the company
  
• Truth in advertising and marketing

My Shih Tzu, Gingerbread, is prone to the itchies and ear infections. When he eats anything with wheat in it those issues really flare up. I haven't been able to pinpoint other allergies yet, but a food full of common allergens like corn, wheat, soybeans, etc. is definitely one that I'm going to avoid.

edited for early morning typos.

Asthefurflies and Luvntzus, I do agree with you both. Thank you. That's exactly what I thought too. If you could've seen the e-mail they sent me supposedly from Dr. Jane, it had  misspellings and it just really contradicted what they claim. I too, thought about being a rep at one point, but something didn't seem right, and the answers I got were really not fully answered coming from a company who has done extensive research on formulations. Same goes for Canine Zone by the way.
 I needed some kind of clarification about this food and all its hype. Now, my question to you is since I've been researching dog foods too, and somehow have become confused with this dog food rollercoaster, what foods do you think are honest? I have the 3 dogs and one of mine has such intestinal problems, but I know what he can and cannot have now. Seems to do the best on pre-mixes, but very costly and needs a meal of a kibble of some sort to satisfy.
Thanks[]

BUT taken from the website of Linda Arndt, who has studied pet food and is a consultant has a list of food that she would recommend. Both of the above mentioned are on that list.

 
Seriously... I could care less what Linda Arndt says. She is not the Dogfood Goddess. Half of the foods on her "list" have total crap in them and I don't care about her feeding trials or anything else. Anyone can call themselves a "canine nutritionist" . Hey... HILLS has "canine nutritionists" .. so does PURINA, DIAMOND and every petfood manufacturer out there and they all think their foods are the best.
 
 There is NO POSSIBLE WAY you can go wrong with ANY food when it has nothing but truely wholesome pure ingredients that have NO questionable attributes. I absolutely refuse to endorse any food that uses heavy grains, corn, soy, glutens, generic fats, processed fats, by-products of ANY kind, crap like sorghum, molasses, bran, etc.  Unless it's completely WHOLE, PURE and NATURAL for a DOG'S diet and not that of a pig or cow, I'm not feeding it. Period.   Linda Arndt can go jump off the closest bridge and take her "list" with her IMO.

Wow.  Ouch.  Do you have to be so flat out mean and rude to each other?

Well I'll tell you.....I've ridden the 'rollercoaster' and I have analyzed thoroughly every holistic dog food out there and as far as no "hype" and quality of ingredients, I chose Timberwolf Organics. Yeah they have crappy customer service but that doesn't bother me.  I have no issues with them. My dogs absolutely love all the formulas and they have no issues with it at all except I do have one dog that can't eat the Southwest Chicken & Herb because he's allergic to chicken.  I chose TO because it has by far the most superior ingredients.  Quality meat meals, imported meats, hypo-allergenic grains, cold-pressed natural oils like walnut, salmon,  tuna/anchovy/mackeral/menhaden, natural herbs, spices, probiotics, chelated minerals and not ONE ingredient that I can call 'questionable'.  There are absolutely no  by-products, fillers, 'garbage' grains like corn, soy, white rice or wheat ( except where wheat is WAY down on the list and being used for it's amino acids and vital nutrients and not as a protein or filler ), no generic 'products', no unnecessary ingredients or ingredients that replace something that can be obtained naturally through a meat, veggie or grain source.

My dogs have improved so much I can't get over it. They have great muscle tone, lots of energy, fantastic thick, shiny, silky coats, fresh breath, good stools and no digestive or other problems like they used to have with things like yeast, upset stomach, throwing up , etc.  Even my neighbors all comment on how beautiful they are.

 There are many here that feed TO and have no issues with it and if you go to any of the dozens of other forums and messageboards online you'll find that the majority of users love it and their dogs do extremely well on it. There are a few people that have 'issues' with TO but it's more personal than pertaining to the actual quality of the food.

Besides TO I also supplement w/canned. I mix in a tablespoon or so because my dogs just prefer it that way. I've found that most of the holistic canned foods are fairly decent, just expensive but I can get 3 meals for 4 dogs out of one can of food.  I use Solid Gold, Wellness, Eagle Pack and Lamaderm.  I also feed them canned salmon & mackerel and homecook them a few meals a week... fresh organ meats, fish, veggies & fruits, eggs, dairy...and they get raw meaty bones as well.  I just don't think that any kibble on it's own can provide complete nutrition just the same as I don't think that a person could totally subsist on cereal for every meal no matter how many vitamins and minerals they pack into it. I believe that living beings need fresh foods as well.

Asthefurflies is very passionate about her dogs' foods.  No need to be continually defensive and nasty about it though, please.
 
I have had crappy customer service w/TO, but I do agree, the dogs did really well on it.
 
To the OP, you have to see what you can put up with as far as ingredients, what your dog tolerates and how well he/she does on a particular food.
 
My dogs happen to do best on Bil-Jac (dry and frozen) and also PetGuard Lifespan. I have to keep a close eye on the bichons' urine pH and these keep them right where they need to be- so off of yucky science diet.  
 
 

ORIGINAL: Asthefurflies

I'll warn you ahead of time that there are a few ppl on this board that love to slam TO for their own personal reasons that really have nothing to do with how good the food is.

Okay I'll bite.

My reasons for not feeding TO have everything to do with how good the food is - because the quality of the food emcompasses everything, the ingredients, packaging, and company standing behind it. There is no one standing behind TO. They don't have crappy customer service, they have nonexistant customer service. They have poor quailty control, which may or may not come from being made in a Diamond plant, and they have skimped on packaging and distributed packaging with incorrect ingredients on it. It doesn't matter if they have the best ingredient lists if you can't be confident that those are the ingredients in the food. Like the OP said, some companies do not comply with AAFCO or the FDA 100% and some don't get caught. But we've been through all this before.

Those are my personal reasons and they are my opinion, just like your opinion that TO is the best. I'm not trying to bash anyone or anything, just stating my opinion and personal experience with feeding this product and letting people make their own informed decision. There are too many other great options out there with companies that stand behind them. And since I saw absolutely no improvement with my three dogs while feeding it, I choose not to mess with that company.

To the OP, with the exception of the menadione, those ingredients certainly are not harmful, but they probably aren't necessary as far as adding value to the food, and there are several other better choices out there without them.