Do they really need veggies?

From what I've read, you can add green tripe to the meat mixture in place of veggies.  The various green tripe sites even say that you can feed your dog just green tripe and it will be complete.  I personally add a small amount of tripe to my dogs raw diet in place of the veggies as my dogs don't eat them anyway.  The meat mixture I use includes  meat, bonemeal, organs, green tripe and raw eggs.  If you want more information, I have a site listed on my profile that goes into detail on portions of each, etc.  Hope this helps you.  I know it was very confusing when I decided to change my dogs over.
Chris

Both AAFCO and NRC nutritional requirements for animals site nutrional needs for vitamins that one can really only find in veggies / carbs, so I'd have to say yes.    Having said that, the amt of veggies / carbs you need to balance a homecooked is probably alot less than you'd find in commercial food (esp kibble).

I'm not sure that there IS a definitive answer.  I use a small amount of fruit and the veggies because of all the vitamins, minerals and antioxidents that can't be found anyplace else.

I agree with JoannDe and Glenmar -- IMO there are vitamins, minerals and antioxidants in veggies/fruits that are beneficial for dogs.  I'd rather they get them from food than from supplements.

     IMHO, some fruits & veggies contain trace nutritional value when fed in moderation, however, they should not be included as one of the main portions of the diet. They offer no calories or significant nutrients - but they do contain chlorophyl, antioxidants that are certainly beneficial to dogs, so shouldn't be completely omitted either. The ones I try to feed most often are blueberries pulped in the blender, once a week or every other week, since they're so beneficial to the urinary system. Other than that I give the odd bits of leftover broccoli, cauliflower, or stringbeans once or twice a week, if that often. When I fed raw I went quite a while without feeding veggies or fruits with absolutely no adverse effects ...

Thanks for the replies.

I still can't help but think of the wolf example. When the pack is feeding on a kill, I'm sure not everyone gets some of the stomach content (yum..) Makes me think that wolves probably get very little veggies/grains in their diets and they only eat berries in a time of starvation. I can't help but wonder how the AAFCO determined the guidelines for canine nutritional needs in the first place. I mean, if Ol Roy is supposed to be okey dokey according to those standards I just don't know...

I also read an article stating the recommended protein requirements for dogs to maintain health. It did not explain how they came to these figures, but it said adult dogs only need 18% protein. If dogs are carnivores how could that be ideal? I guess I would just like to know more about how they tested and came to the conclusion of what vitamins/minerals and protein/fat content our dogs really need to be in optimum health.

I will definitely get some tripe and I guess I will keep up with some veggies too even though I only make homemade twice a week. Better safe than sorry.

First, prey animals in the wild eat a much more varied diet, of things that don't grow in nutritionally exhausted soil. That means levels of some miconutrients are much better and more widely available in wild prey.

Second, wild canids mostly eat (apparently) small animals, whole, which provides something much closer to the complete "ideal" nutritional profile than the limited cuts of meat that the USDA has chosen in their wisdom to make available to the public at large. About ten years ago, when BARF first was gaining in popularity in the US, I was sharing a meal with a vet nutritionist friend. She was laughing at the idea that BARF, with it's veggie/ground recipe, supplements, and rules about bone percentages and offal, was "natural".

"Here's a natural wild canid diet," she said, still laughing. "Take a bird, a rabbit, and the neck of a rotten deer carcass. Throw in some ryegrass and a couple berries and blend it all together. Feed as much as the dog will eat for three days, then about a cup the next two, then nothing but a soup bone the last two days of the week."

The nervous tissue and skin and connective tissues that are found in the "trash" from slaughtered animals, contain many key nutrients that are not found in bone or muscle. Hair/feathers provide bulk that soothe the gi. If you don't have these things in your dogs' diets, it's most likely going to have to come from somewhere else.

Last, wild canids aren't usually the picture of health. Although we do have screwed up breeds that don't live long no matter what, it's not unreasonable to expect a dog to live into its teens these days, all other things being equal. I can even name some large breeds that can get up to that age regularly. Studies have shown that nutritional deficiency does often play a part in the shorter life span of wild canids.

Dogs haven't been wolves for a LOONNNG time. I never worry about what wolves eat. Early man didn't always eat as well as we can eat either. We can eat great foods, unless we just choose to have junk food. Fun sometimes!  

Dogs need to eat 40%- 50% meat.

I homecook and give meat like salmon and lamb and a HUGE variety of veggies and fruit, sweet potatoes, some oatmeal. No other grain.

They get wonderful nutrition for a wide variety of foods. Antioxidents, minerals, vitamins... I have seen the diff. I do not like processed foods. Fresh food is best for all of us. 

ORIGINAL: sallya

Dogs haven't been wolves for a LOONNNG time. I never worry about what wolves eat. Early man didn't always eat as well as we can eat either. We can eat great foods, unless we just choose to have junk food. Fun sometimes!  

Dogs need to eat 40%- 50% meat.

I homecook and give meat like salmon and lamb and a HUGE variety of veggies and fruit, sweet potatoes, some oatmeal. No other grain.

They get wonderful nutrition for a wide variety of foods. Antioxidents, minerals, vitamins... I have seen the diff. I do not like processed foods. Fresh food is best for all of us. 

 
 
I totally agree with you we don't have wolves....while I only home cook once or twice a week.. I feed quality kibble the rest of the time along with an assortment of fresh fruits and veggies, yougrt and someone here told me about some great sweet potato and chicken jerky home made i would like to try!! I have read entirely to much about the possible ill affects of a long term extreamly high protein diets and wont be giving to my girl anytime soon.. She gets quality food..very well balanced, I do feel they need proteins, veggies, fruits, and some (high quality grain)

I am a sweet potato nut for Trudy and my parrot. It is so good, much better than baking potatoes for pets. I made dried sweet taters again a couple of days ago. Sally

Yes thats right you are the one who told me how!!  THANKS AGAIN.... I WILL TRY THEM SOON AND LET YOU KNOW HOW THEY TURN OUT!!!!

Dogs haven't been wolves for a LOONNNG time.

 
Not long at all in terms of evolution. But you're right, it's hard to look at Trudy or Pyper and see anything wolfish. It's a lot easier with my mutt, the dog in Raven's avatar, Glenda's shepherds, and a lot of the other larger dogs around this forum. I think those of us with wolfish, dingo-like, or coyote-looking dogs have an easier time comparing them to wolves than the folks with tzus, poodles, and cockers.
 
Personally, I think dogs don't need veggies if they're eating something more like whole, fresh prey, but for those of us whose dogs get grocery store meat, yeah, I think they need veggies. I also think a wolf would need veggies or some other sources of vitamins and minerals if they ate meat from a grocery store.

So.......... is your vet nutritionist friend still laughing now that more and more folks/vets and etc are gravitating toward so called..."ancestral diet"?
 
My lab enjoys his fruits and veggies... and I think it is better (and cheaper for me) to feed him fresh produce.  Today, he was munching on dark green leafy part of romaine lettuce... and boy, he sure loves it...
 
 
 
 

Becaue your dog still looks somewhat simlair to a wolf like dog.. dosen't mean that the last couple hundred years of domestication haven't changed the gastro intestional track in a big way.. JMO
 
What is life life of a wolf or wild dog... 5 years if there lucky? I don't know about you but I would like to see at LEAST 15 out of mine!