Last hope for runny poop and GAS!

ORIGINAL: Zoe and Zuma

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 We have tried about 6 dog foods- suggested by the pet stores- no chicken or no rice, or no corn, or organic, or simple.  We tried adding white rice, yogurt, digestive aids that sprinkle on, and adding pepto bismal.  [/font]

 
I think you should be more specific about the foods you have tried (brand and variety) so forum members can share their relevant experiences.  My dog is gluten intolerant.  In people that is known as Celiac Disease.   [linkhttp://www.celiac.com/index.html]www.celiac.com/index.html[/link]
 
It is an inability to digest the protein in certain grains (wheat, barley and apparently oatmeal) which are used in a high percentage of dog kibble.  Gluten grains actually damage their digestive system so the longer it goes undiagnosed, the worse its affects are.  The shelter where we got our dog was feeding her Science Diet regular dry which is about the worst possible food for her.
 
She still doesn't always produce "ideal" poops for us poop picker uppers (though usually formed and somewhat firm) but she does not have gas or cow patty poops on Timberwolf Ocean Blue and the odor is low.  I usually mix in a tablespoon or so of mackeral, herring or anchovy mixed with a few ounces of water.  My dog was 42 lbs when we got her a year ago when she was a year old.  She's not a big GSD.  She's now in the mid 50s (or so) and gets a 3 mile walk/run daily.
 
I tried a sample of Prozyme for 2-3 weeks with no noticable difference.  I sometimes add a spoonful of yogurt to her food but it is just for flavor variety, not a digestive aid.  I've tried numerous other grain-free and low gluten kibbles (Barking ATM, Wild & Natural,  Nature's Logic, NV Instinct) but keep coming back to Ocean Blue so I want to at least vary the presentation.

   This is probably something that members with IBD dogs can answer better than me; I hope they come along soon. Did you try a dry food with both brown and white rice; Jessie's stool is firmest on a food with that combination of grains, and very soft on food with corn. Usually, simple foods work better for dogs with digestive problems; California Natural Lamb and Rice is a very simple food that may work; [linkhttp://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/default.asp?id=3]http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/default.asp?id=3[/link]. You can find it at feed stores; the kind that sell horse and chicken feed. Canned food is more digestible than dry so you may want to try a simple canned food and if that helps, gradually progress to a simple dry food. I hope this helps; good luck.

I'd like to see the foods you've tried, too.

Has your dog lost weight?
Has he been checked for Giardia?
How's his personality? Does he seem stressed or insecure?

Have you tried Acidophilus?
[linkhttp://www.herbalremedies.com/acidophilusfordogspuppies-.html]http://www.herbalremedies.com/acidophilusfordogspuppies-.html[/link]

Exactly which foods have you tried?

My guess would be that she has IBD, in which case dry food may not work at all, for her. I'd probably take her to an allergy specialist, a GI specialist, or a vet school and get some input from someone who has more experience with dogs who have serious digestive issues.

How did you discover the gluten intollerance?  Just through trial and error?  We have tried California Natural- lamb and rice, California Naurual sweet potato and fish, Eagle Pack Salmon and Rice, Eagle Pack Hollistec Select, and Science Diet.  The problem is getting worse and Zuma is also thin.  She eats Zoe(my other lab) poop too.  I was told it might because of vitamin deficiency and tried eagle pack supplement, Forbid, Deter, Deter additive for gas and odor.

She is just a year old and her weight seems to be holding (65 lbs).  No personality changes or changes in energy level.  Coat looks good- her belly skin looks a little uneven in color.

I agree with Jennie in that she may have an undiagnosed issue that you may not be able to clear up on your own. Another vet's opinion or a specialist may be helpful.

In the meantime I would forgo commercial food altogether. I definitely wouldn't try something as dense and complicated as Timberwolf - although it may work for you in the future when you know exactly what you are dealing with. For now I would concentrate on getting her tummy settled down by cooking some kind of meat for her - chicken, beef, lamb, venison, rabbit (any ONE of those - not in combination) and some white rice (easily digestible and gluten free) - feed that and ONLY that for a couple of weeks. No additions whatsoever until 1) you know exactly what you are dealing with or 2) her tummy settles down and you can add other items, like other foods (one at a time) or dry kibble, at minuscule amounts - gradually increasing as you go. At a little over a year she's still got some growing to do, so you do want to be cautious about feeding an unbalanced diet (normally this wouldn't be a problem for 6-8 weeks at a time) but chances are she's not processing food correctly anyway - so the priority is getting it fixed ASAP. Good luck with it!!

Is acidopholis available from a pet store?  I'll try the rice and meat thing for a couple of weeks and let you know.  Perhaps another vet too.

In the meantime I would forgo commercial food altogether. I definitely wouldn't try something as dense and complicated as Timberwolf - although it may work for you in the future when you know exactly what you are dealing with. For now I would concentrate on getting her tummy settled down by cooking some kind of meat for her - chicken, beef, lamb, venison, rabbit (any ONE of those - not in combination) and some white rice (easily digestible and gluten free) - feed that and ONLY that for a couple of weeks. No additions whatsoever until 1) you know exactly what you are dealing with or 2) her tummy settles down and you can add other items, like other foods (one at a time) or dry kibble, at minuscule amounts - gradually increasing as you go. At a little over a year she's still got some growing to do, so you do want to be cautious about feeding an unbalanced diet (normally this wouldn't be a problem for 6-8 weeks at a time) but chances are she's not processing food correctly anyway - so the priority is getting it fixed ASAP. Good luck with it!!

I agree, completely. There's something going on when a year old dog is thin and cannot have a normal stool. Forgoing commercial foods is what made my young, emaciated dog better.

I'll try the rice and meat thing for a couple of weeks and let you know. Perhaps another vet too.

Another vet, NOW. Meat and rice is not a balanced diet. This is a puppy we're talking about. She needs nutrition, and she's likely not getting it. She needs some serious diagnostics.

How did you discover the gluten intollerance? Just through trial and error?

ORIGINAL: Zoe and Zuma

First I had a stool sample checked for parasites since I suspected Giardia because I walk her in the woods and we cross a creek several times.  Nothing found.  Her vet is the vet for the animal rescue where we got her so I did not seek food advice from him (Mr SciDie).  She was never diagnosed by a vet as gluten intolerant but through trial and error I am pretty confident I'm right about it.
 
I fed her several types of canned as well as over 10 varieties of kibble.  The variable that produced the biggest change is the presence of barley, wheat or oatmeal.  There was a big difference in odor and stool formation.  I was a bit unscientific at times since I did not bother with a transition period if I was moving from something that wasn't working but did do the hamburger and rice thing for a day or two between. 
 
That unformed cow patty stuff reeked!  I'm talking eyebrow curling, can barely carry without puking, with the bag of scooped up unformed oatmeal mess I had to dig into the dirt and grass to partially pick up.
 
If I had not gotten the great improvement with commonly available commercial foods I was looking into specialists or vets with experience with IBD and other harder to diagnose issues.

I can try the meat and rice tonight.  Should I add few tablespoons of yogurt?  I do not want to keep her on an umbalanced diet very long so how long before I see a result? She gets raw carrots and apples for treats- sometimes bananas- should I cut this out too? I'll start looking for a new vet .  Just to add- she is 15 months and full grown- I expect her to fill out and beef up a bit more but as for growth, she is probably done.  Ideal weight is probably 67 lbs- she weighs 65- close.  My other lab weighs 68 so we're in the ball park- she just looks a little on the long and lean- somewhat due to her field genetics (my other lab is bench) and a little to her weight.

Don't add ANYTHING. No yogurt, treats (pieces of whatever meat you are cooking will work as treats) supplements or ANYTHING. I would fast her for 12-24 hours to rest her gut and then start the meat/rice combo. Give it at least two weeks, unless there is a violent reaction that signifies an intolerance to whatever meat you select.

I get the reeked part- we've been dealing with that for a year!  The smell penetrates a plastic garbage bag and is really uncontainable- i't a bit humid here so running joke is "Zuma's in the air" because it so saturates the air, fabric, bedding, grass, dirt, sand-eek!  I was wondering about the tranistion time but I guess if the dog already has diarreha it can't be much worse.  Hmmm- Giardia...this is an extra parasite test right?  We have done the standard ones.  We do walk in the woods alot and swim (and drink- not me of course) pond and river water where there is an abundance of wildlife.  Can a dog have giardia for a year without having more serious dehydration issues?  I had it once and without being too graphic, remember not being able to leave the house because of the freequency of the "problem"  I think Giardia produces not loose or cow patty poop but largely water- Zuma's poop is not mostly water- just as you described stinky and cow pie'ish but regular- twice a day.