Royal Canin...(I can't believe I'm saying this)

Corn gluten meal is a by-product of the making of cornstarch. It is actually used as a BINDER because it's like GLUE. And because it's like GLUE..... it causes build up in the stomach and intestines and over time causes blockage , just the same as lime and calcium build up in your plumbing until at some point it narrows the pipes so much nothing can pass freely through them.
 
The only thing corn gluten meal is good for is as an organic pre-emergent weed killer.  I wouldn't touch any food that had it in it. There are MUCH better sources to get amino acids.... veggies and fat sources for one.   Their explaination is a poor one and just an excuse to justify using it. 

ORIGINAL: Asthefurflies

Corn gluten meal is a by-product of the making of cornstarch. It is actually used as a BINDER because it's like GLUE. And because it's like GLUE..... it causes build up in the stomach and intestines and over time causes blockage , just the same as lime and calcium build up in your plumbing until at some point it narrows the pipes so much nothing can pass freely through them.

The only thing corn gluten meal is good for is as an organic pre-emergent weed killer.  I wouldn't touch any food that had it in it. There are MUCH better sources to get amino acids.... veggies and fat sources for one.   Their explaination is a poor one and just an excuse to justify using it. 

That's weird....of all the tests we've done with corn gluten meal we've never seen any blockages...the yellow powder (corn gluten meal) is already binded in a form when extruded into dog kibble therefore will not expand upon digestion....I know it is used as a binder, but what's wrong with that?

Any other opinions? 

That's weird....of all the tests we've done with corn gluten meal we've never seen any blockages...the yellow powder (corn gluten meal) is already binded in a form when extruded into dog kibble therefore will not expand upon digestion....I know it is used as a binder, but what's wrong with that?

 
 
 
THIS is what's wrong w/that :
 
 Industry critics note that many of the ingredients used as humectants -- ingredients such as corn syrup and corn gluten meal which bind water to prevent oxidation -- also bind the water in such a way that the food actually sticks to the colon and may cause blockage. The blockage of the colon may cause an increased risk of cancer of the colon or rectum.
 
[link>http://www.rawfoodlife.com/Raw_Pets/raw_pets.htm]http://www.rawfoodlife.com/Raw_Pets/raw_pets.htm[/link]
 
Mind you I have read this same thing on DOZENS of sites.  Do you actually think the companies that use corn gluten meal are going to let you have this information ???  Just like they won't tell you they're using 4D meats and rancid grains either.

Ok, that does make sense, but it would seem to me that would only happen if it was the only thing being fed, not if it was not one of the major ingredients? I am going to ask that to my professor on Monday b/c she didn't mention anything like that, and I figured if that was an issue they wouldn't feed corn gluten meal to cattle and horses as the #1 ingredient.

First of all cattle are ruminant animals and have 4 stomachs. They can handle such stuff in feed. Horses are also herbivores and eat grains. Granted we're talking about CARNIVORES here that have a completely different digestive system that is NOTHING like that of a horse , cow or any other farm animal.

They don't have four stomachs, they have four compartments, one being the true stomach (the abomasum) just like humans and horses have monogastric GI tracts but are considered "hindgut fermenters."  Besides the fact that cows and horses ferment grains, this only helps in the digestion of carbohydrates...they do not digest proteins differently (that is what the HCl in the abomasum is for).  The only difference is that they do not need as much protein as dogs (obviously).  Despite the fact fermentation takes place, the "binding" aspects of the corn gluten meal would not be absorbed any differently than in a dogs colon as you had mentioned in your previous post....so if it really does what you posted from that site earlier, it would do the same things to the colons of horses and cattle.

I happen to feed Royal Canin - Natural Blend and have for 18+ months. Switched my recue to it when we got him (he was literally starved and a mess). I highly recommend this food. I have not tried the mini-30 kibble.
 
While I prefer to stay away from any food that is wheat or corn heavy, I also do not subscribe to the analagy of "anything with corn is terrible" camp. Same goes for beet pulp - it has its uses in the right amounts. Generally, I find the RC-NB combination to be superb to other choices for my dog. For example: he does not do well on Innova. Not saying Innova is a bad food, it just does not work well for my boy.
 
I think the overall balance of a food and what the ingredients contribute is the bigger picture. All foods will work diferently for each animal, and you do what your education leads you to try, then end up evaluating the results for yourself.
 
I will continue to feed Natural Blend as long as my dog is thriving on it. I like RC and what they have been doing animal nutrition wise. Some people do not like the products on this board, but I would encourage you to check the bags and web lately. Like any brand, things can and do change from time to time. The website is sort of a pain, but the info is there - you just have to navigate for it. Many of the formulas have changed in the past years and it is becoming more popular. They own thier own facilities and are certified. (both here in USA and in other countries), which is a plus to me.
 
If you don't want to utilize the 50% doscount, just send it my way[] I'm sure I could find a way to use it and the excess will got o mylocal shelter.
 
Just my 2 cents.

Aside from the brewer's rice and corn gluten meal, that ingredient list could easily be confused with Eagle Pack Holistic Select.

 
Sorry, but I don't see the similarity.
 
Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Anchovy & Sardine Meal, Pork Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Whole Ground Barley, Tomato Pomace, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Canola Oil, Dried Apples, Cheese Meal, Dried Carrots, Air Dried Peas, Sun-cured Alfalfa, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Quinoa (Organic), Inulin, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Dried Cranberries, Dried Blueberries, Beta-Carotene, Dandelion (Organic), Garlic, DL-Methionine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Rosemary Extract, Inositol, Dehydrated Kelp, Polysaccharide Complexes (sequestered) of Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper and Cobalt, Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium, B. Subtillus, Bacillus lichenformis, Bacillus coagulins, Aspergillus oryzae and Aspergillus niger. 
 
Certainly, there are some common ingredients, but the formulation is quite different.
 
The gluten is one of the better portions of corn. It is in the gluten, where most of the nutrients and proteins are contained. Yes, it is a "by-product", BUT, it has to be milled and processed to get it out of the kernel and eliminate the undesirable portions of the corn (ie: starch, fiber, etc). CGM contains 40% - 60% crude protein and also contains methionine (an EAA) which is required by dogs (2.1g for growth and 2.6g for maintanence). Some EAA's are only available through plant sources, so the addition of *supplemental* protein, is a good thing. I don't see where the addition of CGM (if not used as a primary source of protein) can be detramental and if a properly formulated food contained it, I would feed it.
Some of the information linked on this thread are mostly opinions of individuals or groups, which have some validity, but does tend to lean in the direction of their particular feeding scheme and not necessarily BASED on science. There is alot of information on the web, but that doesn't mean it's FACT based on scientific analysis or tightly controlled studies.

Welcome to the dark side of the force. Remember, there's science, and then there's rhetoric to make it appear science is on your side. Initially, the study on lean body wasting was posted as science to "prove" that you shouldn't feed your dog any grain whatsoever and that kibble was evil. That was not the intent or final actual scientific anlaysis of that report, anyway. But people can use it out of context. Science is science and it's excellent that you are learning. For so long, we,ve read that people learning animal nutrition were receiving huge supplies of SD. At least you're getting RC.

The ingredients in a dog food, even grains, are not just there as "filler." At least in the better foods. At least now you can see some things from the educational vantage point of kennelkeeper. Me, I'm not a professional animal or dog anything I just read a lot. And I value science over opinion (I'm one of the last of a dying breed). Any, I appreciate the predicament that you are in. You've had plenty of the rhetoric and layman's opinions about this or that, and now you get to see the science actually involved.

I believe the reason for fractionating and grind the grains is the break the cell wall snad make them more digestible.
 

I've noticed that some sites that are against the use of grain aren't using scientific studies but rhetoric based on superficial knowledge of certain chemical reactions, pure opinion, etc, rather than an objective use of science, as Papillon is learning and you have learned.

I have a friend who works at a clinic and Royal Canin came to talk with them recently, and gave her a 6 month supply of their food for free.  She's been feeding it for a few months, and her dog looks pretty amazing.  Maddie is a black Great Dane, and she's always been a little under weight.  Nothing could ever put weight on her. She is thriving on their food!  She looks nice and filled out now, and her coat is beautiful without the help of any supplements.
 
From the results she's seen she's very pleased with the food.

I have read/heard about dogs having blockage from sox, underwear, pices of toys, greenies, all kinds of stuff like that, but never from corn glutten in their food.  It that was truly the case, it seems there would be many thousdands and thousands of dogs with this problem.