Help chosing a new food- dog with severe allergies

Not trying to be difficult here, but the food that came to mind isn't on your "I can get" list. But maybe you can still get it in your area. The problem might be the lamb flavor though.
 
Nature's Variety Venison Meal and Millet
Venison Meal, Millet, Oatmeal, Barley, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Pumpkinseeds, Montmorillonite Clay, Natural Lamb Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Niacin Supplement, Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Beta Carotene, Folic Acid), Sea Salt, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite), Chicken Liver, Inulin, Amaranth, Quinoa, Blueberries, Cranberries, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Freeze Dried Venison, Pineapple, Rosemary Extract, Sage, Freeze Dried Lamb Hearts, Freeze Dried Lamb Liver, Apples, Carrots, Ground Lamb Bone, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseeds, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Kelp, Salmon Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Alfalfa Sprouts, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Persimmons, Olive Oil, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Sage, Clove
 
 
 
 

I had similar problems with Ricky licking his paws and throwing up frequently after
eating. After changing foods many times we tried Innova Evo a grain free high protein,
low carb food. We also started hand feeding him 5 small meals a day. Its been less then
a month but he's stopped throwing my and he's licking his paws less.

EVO is a very rich food and if you decide to try it you want to make the switch very
slowly and feed the recommend amount for her activity level.

http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=product-detail&pxsl=%2F%2Fproduct%5B%40id%3D%271246%27%5D

Good luck,

Tess

Laura, Has Daisy ever been tested for Thyroid problems? 

You might consider looking on the Chi-Institute website for their locator. Trying a holistic vet of this type is way different, and you may find the success we have. [linkhttp://www.chi-institute.com/]http://www.chi-institute.com/[/link] (and yeah, for those of you who 'collect' URLs -- that's different -- it used to be [linkhttp://www.tcvm.com/]http://www.tcvm.com/[/link] but they've changed it to chi-institute to reflect the name more easily).  As Callie so recommends as I do. They do wonders and also have a state locator to find one in your area. Wonders... No miricals.

When it comes to allergies I get too scared -- allergies ARE an immune problem, and I don't like the correlation's I see between dogs that have allergies (particularly those taking allergy shots) and those that get cancer. I've been there done that with two dogs in the past years. And still have a couple of those allergy dogs residing with me. Turmeric Root, Black Catecbu, Grindelia Floral Buds and Lobelia, combined, protect the liver from circulating antigens and allergens, thereby reducing infections and skin or intestinal irritations associated with airborne, urea, and food related allergies. This combination supports the adrenal glands when epinephrine is needed by the body during inflammatory responses generated by allergens. It also is indicated for all disorders of hypersensitivity, inclusing allergies, asthma, dermatitis, irritable bowel syndrome, reactive arthritis, and food related digestive disorders.

You can also add a nutritional supplement for her like Vitamin C - 1000 mg per 25lbs of body weight. If she has a problem with this, you can lower the dosage to suite her needs. Like 500 mg per 25lbs of body weight and so on.

Vitamin A 2500 IU per 25lbs of body weight per day with Beta Carotene - 1200 IU per day and Vitamin E - 50 IU of d-Alpha to stimulate the immune system and tissue rejuvenation.

Vitamin B- Complex - 50 mg to 100 mg per day regardless of size. Smaller pets utilize it faster.

Antioxidants such as Selenium, Super Oxide Desmutase and Garlic.

Omega-3 and Omega-6 Fatty Acids. Help reduce itch of dry skin. Or an oil in her food that has this fatty 3 acids.

MSM-is a sulfur-based nutrient, which helps reduce tissue inflammation and promotes improved skin elasticity and coat condition. Some say it is too harsh for the animal. If it does not agree with her do not use it.

Minerals such as Zinc - 5 mg per 25lbs of body weight, Chromium - 5mcg. per 25lbs. This helps build resistance and supports tissue repair.

To answer your question of how come so many itchy dogs, it is poor quality commercial food by greedy manufacturers cutting corners.  
Ingredients to avoid in an allergy prone dog are as follows: Greasy foods, Animal Byproducts, Grain Byproducts, Fillers, Yeast, and Sugar.  You can also put her on Fish, Rabbit, Venison in addition to Lamb diet.  Also change her cookies to something like Newman's own natural ingredients with NO wheat in them or you can make your own. All too often people forget to change the snacks when they change everything else. I would also change her over to the new food gradually, like, what ever she is on now, decrees by a 1/4 and add a 1/4 to replace the missing quarter for a few days, then 1/2 new and 1/2 old food for a week or so, then 3/4 new food and 1/4 of the old stuff for a few more days. Over a two to three week period. This way you do NOT upset the natural balance of her tummy when introducing new stuff. Things that are also good for her are things like sweet potatoes, baked or steamed in which you can add into her food as an extra treat. The Yucca root, is actually a vegetable which looks kind of like a potato in the frozen section of Wal Mart, you can also give her into her food. It not only serves as an anti inflammatory but soothes the itchies and is healthy for her.

Beau gets, cooked veggies in his food once a week with things like what I mentioned and green beans, carrots, NO ONIONS, Or Mushrooms either. There is only one kind of Mushroom they can eat and that is limited amount, is the Shitakii mushroom. I even give him fruits to eat, like melon's, oranges, apples, NO GRAPES, they are toxic to a dog. Cranberry juice along with veggie juice is also good. As long as there is NO GRAPE JUICE in it.
I find that DUCK being a bird just like Chicken agitates their allergies too. One of mine is on Wellness and is doing very well on it and has done so for many years.
The other I have placed on Wysong with alternating raw and fruit's and veggies. He is also doing very well along with chinese herbs for his thyroid problem. To look at him you would never know he has a problem and does not take any Thyroid medications for this condition either.
I am sure Callie will come along with her wisdom also. It was through her that I learned about allergies in dogs and how to deal with them. She is our allergy person on this forum. You could prob email her with your concerns and she will respond back. Awesome lady!
 

EVO really isn't a RICH food, nor is Innova.  To me, think about what we consider rich foods...lots of creams, butters, etc, stuff that flat out isn't good for us in excess.  There is nothing NOT good in either product.  The kcals are higher than most foods so I'm thinking that's where this started.

With my allergy dog, I've found that simple is the best route.  It helps that Daisy is an itty bitty dog!  You've got lots more choices within your budget than someone feeding a 100 pound mastiff.

Watch out for chicken.  Ben was fine on chicken for years but it's aparently common for sensitive dogs to develop this allergy later in life.  Sometimes  this can expand to all poultry - possibly this has happened to Daisy?  Ben is fine with duck, thank goodness.

Lamb is VERY rich - you never want to feed it cooked unless your dog has demostrated tolerance, and always trim off the visible fat, unless your dog needs it.  Sometimes right after Easter you'll see lamb stew meat or ground lamb in the meat case - that's an inexpensive way to find out whether it was the lamb or the way you offered it that bothered Daisy.

Most kibbles have too many variables to keep track of - it can be very expensive to try to use premium kibbles in an elimination diet.  I found that Ben was sensitive to such oddball things as flaxseed, tomato, diary products, and a couple others that are in a LOT of premium foods.  Add in the chicken/egg and I was tearing my hair out.  It was easier to homecook for him, for sure.  since I went through all that, NB came out with their allergy formulas and so did Wellness.  Ben still can only eat the NB Duck and Potato, but at least now I have that to fall back on.

Wellness has the "Simple" recipes.  Well, darn, I see you are in the same boat I'm in - the Wellness uses rice.  Solid Gold has the Holistique Blendz but Ben has trouble with something in it - I think it was the oatmeal.  EVO is OK but has dairy - suspect for Ben.

Honestly, I'd be tempted to simply homecook for that little girl - there are so many vet-approved balanced recipes available now that you could adapt for her allergies - and this would open up so many food choices - rabbit, venision, game birds, pork, fish, exotics like ostrich and camelids.  And wonderful nutritious carb sources like barley, quinoa and other grains and vegetables like avocado and coconut, much too expensive for the kibble producers to use.  But of course you'd want to start simply with what you know she'll tolerate.

Good luck!

  I'm so sorry to hear about Daisy. Have you contacted the company about the greasy kibble? I know you've seen the thread about the Natural balance mystery kibble. You've probably read the thread about Natural Balance being made by Diamond; I wonder if Diamond is messing up again like they did with their kibble.
   Jessie is allergic to chicken, and where we live the best kibble without chicken is the Eagle Pack Holistic kibbles. You said Daisy is allergic to rice; is that only white rice or does it include whole grain brown rice, which Eagle has in all the Holistic formulas? If she isn't allergic to brown rice she may do well on the fish, chicken, or duck formulas as they don't have any of the other ingredients on your list. The Holistic formulas are 40% meat meal, they use organic grains,  and Eagle owns its own APHIS plant. I've been feeding her Eagle for a year and haven't had any issues with greasy kibble, etc.
    Most if not all of the Wysong formulas also have brown rice. Canidae has white rice. The Solid Gold Fish might work ( no rice). I'm sure others will be here to relate their experience feeding the foods on your list.
    Is there any chance she is allergic to pollen as well as having food allergies? This is the time of year when a dog with environmental allergies will be very itchy, and as dogs age it gets worse ( I know fron experience). You're "thedoc" so I'm assuming you're a vet and already know this but thought I'd mention it anyway. I sure hope you find some relief for Daisy soon.
  

Here is another vote for Natures Variety they have great foods.  My dogs are doing great on the whole system.....the frozen raw the kibble and the canned. I know that Wellness has a turkey and sweet potato canned that the dogs like, maybe they have a dry too? Try the Natures Variety it is a good food.
 
Julie

I was going to suggest the Eagle Pack Holistic Duck & Potato also.  Didn't realize it had rice in it, but maybe the brown rice wouldn't be a problem.  I just finished the 12 week true elimination diet with Sassy.  Pork & buckwheat and NOTHING else.  We were diligent with this and although I'm glad we did it, Sassy didn't really improve and has actually been more itchy the last few weeks.  I'm convinced (well mostly) that she has environmental allergies and some food allergies.  We'd been feeding the NB Duck & Potato and it really made a huge difference.  I decided last fall to try the NB Fish & Sweet Potato and she got a little itchier and then developed the infection on her tummy that took almost 3 months to clear up.  I've now put her back on NB Duck & Potato and am hoping for the best.  If this doesn't work though, I'm going to try the Eagle Pack Holistic blends.  If that doesn't work...well, keep me away from sharp instruments [].

Have you thought about barf. That is what I have my pack on. That away you can control what goes in your dogs tummy.

I had a HUGE long gigantic reply, but the server booted me off and I lost it all so I'm going by memory. []
 
Thanks everyone for your suggestions first of all.
 
The one thing that I forgot to add is that Daisy's urine pH is a bit high right now (between 8.0 and 8.5) so the food will need to have a low "target urine pH". I would go with EVO in a heartbeat, but I've heard that a really high protien food is more alkaline than acidic. (although that doesn't make any sense because meat products are acidic in general) I get so confused with this chemistry stuff!
 
With the rice, when she got sick, it was cooked white rice. I did try her on the Venison/Brown rice formula of NB, (when I first had the roblem) and she went into a "allergy attack" (meaning itching all over and she got a severe ear infection too). I gave it to her for about a month, just in case it was detox from the other food. Then we went back to the Duck/Potato
 
Fourpaws, I totally understand about allergies and other problems. My bridge-girl, Candy (also a badly bred shih tzu) also had low thyroid and cushings disease. Candy had it a whole lot worse though than Daisy does (knock on wood) and I really would like to find other options besides allergy shots (not only can it be possibly harmful, but I really don't have the financial responsibility for allergy shots right now. For Candy, I think the entire allergy shots/testing/dermatologist was around $2,500 to $3,000)
I have heard great things about the Yucca root- that it has an anti-inflamatory effect similar to prednisone only without the side effects. Can you find it near the frozen vegatables at Wal-Mart?
 
About the thyroid, (I know all dogs are different, but..) she really doesn't show any of the normal symptoms like she's not overweight, I can't tell if she's "gorging" herself because she always acts like she's starving. (I say this because my room-mate's dog, Oscar has hypothyroid and they knew something was wrong when he ate their entire cucumber collection straight from the garden)
 
Jessies_mom, I actually am not a vet. I have just had this user name for a long time, and when I first came onto I-dog, I was in pre-vet school. It's a long process after that of when I found out that it definitely wasn't for me!
 
Kelly, I would LOVE to try Nature's Variety, the only little problem is that the only store within a 30 mile radius near me that has it- is a pet store that sells puppies, and I just can't do that- I would feel like I am giving them profit. I may be able to find somewhere that may ship it for me.
 
Eventually I want to do an elimination diet with her to see exactly what she is allergic to, but in  my current situation, I really can't afford it right now. I do agree that it would figure out what she was allergic to once and for all as well as save me medical bills down the road, but that trial period might just cost me an arm and a leg. (I hope you guys don't think I'm a horrible person). I am also bad at measuring, and I worry that I'll mis-calculate the amount of calcium and she'll break a bone or something.
 
The company swears up and down that nothing has changed except that they took out the bad Vitamin K suppliment (medatinone- sp??)- but the bag says "new and improved" when I first noticed a difference.

I forgot to add that Daisy does just fine on the Duck and Potato canned, so it leads me to believe maybe that it is some hidden grain in the kibble. The only thing she does after she gets the canned food is rub her face on the carpet. I don't know if her face is itchy and it's a reaction, or if she's just using the floor as a napkin!!
 
Thanks again guys- please keep it comming. I appreciate your imput!

ORIGINAL: thedoc617

Kelly, I would LOVE to try Nature's Variety, the only little problem is that the only store within a 30 mile radius near me that has it- is a pet store that sells puppies, and I just can't do that- I would feel like I am giving them profit. I may be able to find somewhere that may ship it for me.

 
Well, I was going to mention that dog.com has it, but [sm=eek.gif] it came to $4.64/lb for a 5 lb bag - etfooddirect.com (if you get a 20% off code) came to $2.83 (shipping to OK, to TX might be more). But, honestly, if you're going to order something I'd look at the California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato.
 
Good Luck!!

but that trial period might just cost me an arm and a leg. (I hope you guys don't think I'm a horrible person). I am also bad at measuring, and I worry that I'll mis-calculate the amount of calcium and she'll break a bone or something.

 
You are not a horrible person, so don't even think like that.  It's frustrating and confusing trying to figure this out.  I just wanted you to know that you can do the elimination diet for really low cost.  In your case, with a small dog, you probably wouldn't notice much difference in cost for the 8-12 weeks you do it.  With my big girl, it probably cost me an additional $20 a month more.  You could try what I used (pork & buckwheat) or something else that seems novel.  You don't need to worry about calcium or any other supplements for the short term trial, so it's pretty simple.  I just plugged in my crockpot every weekend and threw the pork in, cooked it, pulled it out, added water and cooked the buckwheat.  I put it into serving size ziploc bags, stuck a few days worth in the frig and the rest in the freezer.  Sassy was eating 5 cups per day, but with Daisy, you could probably cook up enough on a weekend to last at least two weeks.
I'm not pushing you to do this, so don't feel like that.  I just want you to know that if you wanted to, it's not as scary and difficult as it sounds.

Yucca roots are in the FRESH veggies section They do have a waxy coating that you have to peel off. My dogs LOVE them. They're great for anything inflamed, including sore joints.

I hate to say it, but I wouldn't play around with different kibbles too much, since you aren't able to do an elimination diet, yet. You want to be able to find a novel protein source relatively easily, so it's a good idea to use something that has proteins and carbs that she's all had before. Wysong is ridiculously expensive. Seriously, home cooking is WAY cheaper. All the Wellness kibbles do have grains, even the Simple Solutions. Canidae is chicken based. Innova and EVO, chicken again. California Natural formulas all have rice. Eagle Pack's all have corn. Solid Gold has Barking at the Moon, which is a grain free turkey/salmon base. You might try that one....

Hi:
I'm new to this forum. I read about your dog having severe allergies, I too have a dog with almost the same condition. Comforting knowing I'm not the only one with a sensitive dog. I have tried every food out there, well only the good ones not the cheap ones. Still 3 years later trying to find a successful food.
Check into Dr. Harvey's.  You can even personally call him, he's there and gets on the phone with you and he has been extremely helpful.  He knows a lot and is honest.  He doesn't push that his food is the best and only his food will work like Abady does.
It's been 3 weeks since I started all 3 of my dogs on it and we are finally having some success. My sensitive dog I have to put the mix in the blender for a few seconds to get it to powder consistency then prepare, so far so good.  He cannot digest ANYTHING!
Check out Dr. Harvey's, it's worth a try.  Seems like there's a lot of grains, but after making the food one pound at a time, there is only about 1% grain.
I've tried a lot of foods, so hoefully I can give some knowledge, as well as I have learned a lot from others on this.[]