Sci Diet new formula!

The name of an ingredient does not tell you the properties within. Its not as easy as picking happy ingredients that make you feel good.

NUTRITIONAL MANAGEMENT OF CANINE LOWER TRACT UROLITHS
Overview
Results of experimental and clinical investigation have confirmed the importance of dietary modifications in medical protocols designed to promote dissolution and prevention of uroliths. The objectives of medical management of uroliths are to arrest further growth and/or to promote urolith dissolution by correcting or controlling underlying abnormalities. For therapy to be most effective, it must promote undersaturation of urine with calculogenic crystalloids by: 1) increasing the urine solubility of crystalloids, 2) increasing the volume of urine in which crystalloids are dissolved or suspended, & 3) reducing the quantities of calculogenic crystalloids in urine. For example, attempts to increase the solubility of crystalloids in urine often include dietary modifications designed to change pH in order to create a less favorable environment for crystallization. Increasing dietary moisture is commonly used to increase the volume of urine in which crystalloids are dissolved or suspended. Change in the composition of dietary ingredients is an example of a method to reduce the quantity of calculogenic crystalloids in urine.
Infection Induced Struvite
Experimental and clinical studies have shown that infection-induced struvite uroliths in dogs may be dissolved with a calculolytic diet and administration of antibiotics.
Diet: The goal of dietary modification for dogs with infection-struvite uroliths is to increase urine volume and to reduce urine concentration of urea (the substrate of microbial urease), phosphorus, and magnesium. We evaluated a high moisture (canned) calculolytic diet formulated to contain a reduced quantity of high-quality protein and reduced quantities of phosphorus and magnesium (Prescription Diet Canine s/d; Hill's Pet Nutrition). The diet was supplemented with sodium chloride to stimulate thirst and induce compensatory polyuria. In addition, reduction of urea from dietary protein reduces renal medullary urea concentration and further contributes to diuresis.
Antimicrobics: The importance of UTI with urease-producing bacteria in formation of most struvite uroliths in dogs emphasizes the importance of therapy to eliminate or control them. We used therapeutic dosages of antimicrobial agents selected on the basis of antibiotic dilution susceptibility tests. Preference was given to bacteriocidal drugs excreted in high concentration in urine, and with a wide margin of safety between therapeutic and toxic doses. The fact that diuresis reduced urine concentration of antimicrobial agents was considered when formulating antimicrobial dosages.
Outcome: The efficacy of the aforementioned diet in inducing dissolution of infected struvite uroliths was been confirmed by controlled experimental and clinical studies (1). The mean time for dissolution of naturally occurring infection induced urocystoliths was approximately 3 months (range = 2 weeks to 7 months).
Prevention: Infection-induced struvite urolithiasis may be prevented by eradicating or controlling UTI's. Use of magnesium restricted acidifying diets is an ancillary method of prevention.
Cystine
Clinical studies confirm that a calculolytic diet & 2-MPG are often effective in dissolving and preventing cystine uroliths (1).
Diet: Diets that promote formation of acidic concentrated urine are risk factors for cystine urolithiasis in susceptible dogs. These include high protein dry diets, especially those rich in methionine ( a precursor of cysteine ). Reduction of dietary protein has the potential of minimizing formation of cystine uroliths. Pilot studies performed on cystinuric dogs at the University of Minnesota revealed a 20 to 25% reduction in 24-hour urine cystine excretion during consumption of a reduced protein, sodium restricted, urine alkalinizing canned calculolytic diet ( (Prescription Diet Canine u/d, Hills' Pet Products) compared to a canned maintenance diet. An additional beneficial effect of protein restricted diets was reduction in renal medullary urea concentration and associated reduction in urine concentration.
Urine alkalinizers: Oral administration of supplemental urine alkalinizers was considered if urine remained acid during dietary therapy.
Thiola: N- (2-mercaptopropionyl)-glycine, (2-MPG- Mission Pharmacal), decreases urine concentration of cystine. Thiola was given at a dosage of 15 to 20 mg/kg q 12 hours in conjunction with diet therapy to dissolve canine cystine uroliths.
Outcome: A combination of calculolytic diet and 2-MPG therapy was effective in promoting dissolution of uroliths.. With a combination of diet & drug therapy, we induced dissolution of 18 episodes of cystine urocystoliths affecting 14 dogs in an average of 78 days (range 11 to 211 days).
Prevention: Because cystine uroliths frequently recur in young to middle-age stone-forming dogs within 12 months following removal, prophylactic therapy should be considered. Dietary therapy and, if necessary, urine alkalinization may be initiated to minimize cystine crystalluria.. If necessary, 2-MPG may be added at a dosage of 15 mg/kg q 12 hours.

The name of an ingredient does not tell you the properties within. Its not as easy as picking happy ingredients that make you feel good.

 
oh come on. Corn gluten has nothing to do with struvite crystals, it's a just a cheap way to make the food look like it has adequate protein in it.

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

The name of an ingredient does not tell you the properties within. Its not as easy as picking happy ingredients that make you feel good.

 
Does corn gluten have any other properties within that we are not aware of besides being a plant-based protein source (and an incomplete one at that?)

ORIGINAL: jenns

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

The name of an ingredient does not tell you the properties within. Its not as easy as picking happy ingredients that make you feel good.

Does corn gluten have any other properties within that we are not aware of besides being a plant-based protein source (and an incomplete one at that?)

**Content Removed - Rude, Off Topic Post**

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

It can be supplied by the Chinese, along with the fish raised in sewage, toothpaste with antifreeze and tires that come apart.  

As a person whose husband is half Chinese (Malaysian, actually), I find this remark to be offensive. Crappy products come from all corners of the world, there is no need to be snide here.

I would ask that you edit your post. Don't make me edit it for you - you won't like the consequences.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

The name of an ingredient does not tell you the properties within. Its not as easy as picking happy ingredients that make you feel good.

oh come on. Corn gluten has nothing to do with struvite crystals, it's a just a cheap way to make the food look like it has adequate protein in it.

Well, even Eagle Pack claims to use corn gluten in their cat food to prevent crystals.  If they used high quality meat as their protien sources they wouldn't have to use corn gluten as one.

Poor quality meat has high levels of ash.  High quality meat does not.  I think it's a jumbled mess.  Someone, back in the eighties, I bet, said that adding corn gluten as a source of protien prevented struvite cystals because it doesn't have as much ash in it as meat - well maybe if they tested the ash levels on high quality meat this scientific rumor wouldn't have been spread.  If you speak to vets and nutritionalists who have updated information on UTI's, most of them, including my own and the nutritionalists of Nature's Logic and Nature's Variety will tell you that "ash causing UTI's" is a myth."  So ash may not even be a factor.  I don't know, I'm not a vet and don't claim to be one, but I know what Ive been told.

You get rid of struvite by decreasing the phosphorus and magnesium in the diet. If you happen to know a quality meat source thats low in those two ingredients, I'm sure Science Diet would love to hear from you.

Struvite in cats is nothing to mess around with. When stones block the urethra, it can result in the death of the cat in 3-7 days if left untreated. This is a painful and difficult process, and not all of them can be fixed without serious surgery (basically turn the boy cat into a girl cat) and even then you don't always fix the problem. Many cats are euthanized due to blockages, and a cat that is saved may not have a second chance if the problem recurs, and therefore dietary management may be essential.

Whats a little corn gluten when it may prevent a deadly illness??

I dare any of you to help un-block a cat and then tell me that its not worth feeding your cat a substandard food for the rest of its life to prevent this painful and debilitating problem.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

The name of an ingredient does not tell you the properties within. Its not as easy as picking happy ingredients that make you feel good.

oh come on. Corn gluten has nothing to do with struvite crystals, it's a just a cheap way to make the food look like it has adequate protein in it.

Corn gluten provides protein without the added phosphorus.  And no, there are no animal proteins that can accomplish this.

ORIGINAL: jenns

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

The name of an ingredient does not tell you the properties within. Its not as easy as picking happy ingredients that make you feel good.

Does corn gluten have any other properties within that we are not aware of besides being a plant-based protein source (and an incomplete one at that?)

And while it is an incomplete protein, they add chicken by-product meal which supplies the missing amino acids needed (so it does have all of the essential amino acids).  It is not a good food for the average dog, but would be very effective with a dog suffering from chronic struvite crystals.

I dare any of you to help un-block a cat and then tell me that its not worth feeding your cat a substandard food for the rest of its life to prevent this painful and debilitating problem.

Well said MissKiwi. I just got done with a hell of a weekend. Got a chunk of tooth knocked out in an accident. Spent hours trying to get in and out of my own driveway due to carnival traffic. And had to take my cat to the eVet 40 miles away for crystals. I've had this cat on Euk for FOURTEEN YEARS without a single problem - then one bag of Innova EVO later and we're at the e-vet. That premium, top-of-the-line food that is supposed to be perfect in every way nearly killed her. We're going back to the "garbage" food that kept her happy and healthy for the last 14 years.

It can be supplied by the Chinese, along with the fish raised in sewage, toothpaste with antifreeze and tires that come apart.

Wow. Rude AND ignorant in one sentence. I'm impressed. We're got corn gluten coming out of our ears in this country. China buys it from us. Reading an online pet nutrition "expert's" ranting online does not make anyone a nutritionist. And I am always amazed at the complete ignorance concerning how we raise and process food in our country. We have the safest and cheapest food supply in the entire world but are too busy panicing about the few incidences that do occur to see it.

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

You get rid of struvite by decreasing the phosphorus and magnesium in the diet. If you happen to know a quality meat source thats low in those two ingredients, I'm sure Science Diet would love to hear from you.

Struvite in cats is nothing to mess around with. When stones block the urethra, it can result in the death of the cat in 3-7 days if left untreated. This is a painful and difficult process, and not all of them can be fixed without serious surgery (basically turn the boy cat into a girl cat) and even then you don't always fix the problem. Many cats are euthanized due to blockages, and a cat that is saved may not have a second chance if the problem recurs, and therefore dietary management may be essential.

Whats a little corn gluten when it may prevent a deadly illness??

I dare any of you to help un-block a cat and then tell me that its not worth feeding your cat a substandard food for the rest of its life to prevent this painful and debilitating problem.

If your trying to prevent UTI's in cats, you should feed some canned, not add corn gluten to their diet.  Moisture prevents crystals in cats period, as the main reason cats, or really animals in general, get UTI's is because they aren't drinking enough water.  Don't lecture me on cats and UTI's.  I've done all the research and read all the articles I possibly can on this topic and I would consider my self an expert on cats and UTI's. 
My first cat died of a renal failure and I really find it offensive that you think me so stupid.  She is the reason I have done all my research on cats and UTI's.  Cat's need more moisture in their diet, not corn gluten.

You believe what you want.  I personally, consider your information on cats and UTI's outdated and so does my vet.  I've read and Ive been told by my vet after my recently adopted male cat (who by the way was being fed a very corn gluten loaded food at the shelter) ended up with struvite mucus that I should feed a grainless canned diet with an ash level below 2% and a Magnesium level below .03%.  Wellness is what I feed with a ash level of 1.95% and a magnesium level of .025%.  About the lowest you can find - and guess what - no corn gluten.  I've had him for a year now and haven't had a single reoccuring infection.

There are other things that prevent UTI's besides corn gluten too, like...

•  giving distilled or spring water, as city and especially well water contain elevated levels of minerals.

• Using unscented cat litter as a cats sense of smell is 10 times greater than ours and while the perfume used in some cat litters may smell good to you, it irritates your cat, causing them to hold their urine too long

We wouldn't have to "jimmy-rig" our cats' diets to something that's not even close to what they are supposed to eat, if we considered what really causes UTI's - human laziness and convenience  - dry food and scented cat litter.

oh come on. Corn gluten has nothing to do with struvite crystals, it's a just a cheap way to make the food look like it has adequate protein in it.

Natura uses it in there cat food.

And this is what TWO says about it in there Myths and Misconceptions area:

Corn gluten meal is a good protein source, it's high in the sulfur containing amino acids, but a lot of people (myself included) prefer an animal based protein which means you must add animal meals which means it is not 100% human grade.

ORIGINAL: jojo the pogo

If your trying to prevent UTI's in cats, you should feed some canned, not add corn gluten to their diet.  Moisture prevents crystals in cats period, as the main reason cats, or really animals in general, get UTI's is because they aren't drinking enough water.  Don't lecture me on cats and UTI's.  I've done all the research and read all the articles I possibly can on this topic and I would consider my self an expert on cats and UTI's. 
My first cat died of a renal failure and I really find it offensive that you think me so stupid.  She is the reason I have done all my research on cats and UTI's.  Cat's need more moisture in their diet, not corn gluten.

You believe what you want.  I personally, consider your information on cats and UTI's outdated and so does my vet.  I've read and Ive been told by my vet after my recently adopted male cat (who by the way was being fed a very corn gluten loaded food at the shelter) ended up with struvite mucus that I should feed a grainless canned diet with an ash level below 2% and a Magnesium level below .03%.  Wellness is what I feed with a ash level of 1.95% and a magnesium level of .025%.  About the lowest you can find - and guess what - no corn gluten.  I've had him for a year now and haven't had a single reoccuring infection.

There are other things that prevent UTI's besides corn gluten too, like...

•  giving distilled or spring water, as city and especially well water contain elevated levels of minerals.

• Using unscented cat litter as a cats sense of smell is 10 times greater than ours and while the perfume used in some cat litters may smell good to you, it irritates your cat, causing them to hold their urine too long

We wouldn't have to "jimmy-rig" our cats' diets to something that's not even close to what they are supposed to eat, if we considered what really causes UTI's - human laziness and convenience  - dry food and scented cat litter.

Thank you for posting this.   I have had cats all my life and my learning experience has been the same as yours.  Even my old school vet advises me to feed my cats canned food to prevent UTI's and kidney problems.  Cats fed dry food only take in half the amount of water as those fed canned and the chronic dehydrateion stresses the kidneys.   And you cannot force a cat to drink, but you can ensure it gets the water it needs by getting rid of the dry food.  Dry diets like this prescription diet are simply a BAND-AID to atch it up and mask the real problem, they do not address the real problem and probably make it worse.  Does anyone conducting these studies care about why this is such a chronic problem in cats? Or do they only care about what prescription foods and drugs they can sell?
 

You get rid of struvite by decreasing the phosphorus and magnesium in the diet. If you happen to know a quality meat source thats low in those two ingredients, I'm sure Science Diet would love to hear from you.

 
So what you're saying is the fact that cats eat meat is what causes struvite crystals?  Geez, talk about poor anatomical and physiological design! Cats are designed to kill and eat meat, yet the meat causes them to have kidney problems.  Where did all those millions of years of feline evolution go wrong?


 

It's not meat that's the problem. It's high conccentrations of muscle meats. We think it looks great when read it on the cat food label but a wild cat will eat whole small animals. Bones, guts, brains, fur, you name it. Cats don't say "I'm not eating By-products! Just cut me a loin chop, please!" When we start to think things are "garbage" and throw it out so we can feed the "good" stuff things get out of whack.