Blackwatch feed program

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

Yup. And if they fed a high-quality diet with these active ingredients added, instead of the corn-and-peanut hulls-diet plus active ingredients, I suspect most of the dogs on the prescription diets would do much better. That's the kind of study we need-- do dogs on j/d have less pain and better overall health than dogs on raw diets plus joint supplements?  I really doubt j/d would look good in that comparison.

I totally agree. The average pet owner feeds something like Pedigree, Beneful, or other grocery store brand and their dog is overweight. So by comparison, J/D will make them lose weight and the joint supplements in the food will be an improvement. BUT, how much better would they do on a high quality, meat based diet with supplements added?

Also consider that often the j/d has to be further supplimented.  The vet that operated on Jack's elbow and his PT vet both told me to get an extra joint supp for him. 

ORIGINAL: sillysally

Also consider that often the j/d has to be further supplimented.  The vet that operated on Jack's elbow and his PT vet both told me to get an extra joint supp for him. 

Its not supposed to be supplemented. The idea of prescription foods is to increase compliance by giving the dog needs in their food. Its easy to get owners to feed their pets, they do that already, its harder to get them to give medicines, and even harder yet to get them to change or improve their feeding strategies by homecooking or supplementing if it gets any more complicated than a single pill. You have to remember most dog owners don't do NEARLY as much as everyone here.

The idea of prescription foods is to increase compliance by giving the dog needs in their food. Its easy to get owners to feed their pets, they do that already, its harder to get them to give medicines, and even harder yet to get them to change or improve their feeding strategies by homecooking or supplementing if it gets any more complicated than a single pill. You have to remember most dog owners don't do NEARLY as much as everyone here.

 
 
it's a good idea. But their ingredients in most of their prescription formulas are inexcusable. They should be ashamed. They are putting "making a little extra money by using cheap garbage ingredients" ahead of dog's health. They could so easily make their prescription diets healthier. But that would cut into their profit. Shame on them.

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

Its not supposed to be supplemented. The idea of prescription foods is to increase compliance by giving the dog needs in their food. Its easy to get owners to feed their pets, they do that already, its harder to get them to give medicines, and even harder yet to get them to change or improve their feeding strategies by homecooking or supplementing if it gets any more complicated than a single pill. You have to remember most dog owners don't do NEARLY as much as everyone here.

 
You bring up a good point.  Most dog owners are not going to be bothered with supplementation, homeade diets etc... and that is who the prescription diets are targeted for - your average dog owner who I can definitely see compliance being an issue.  It's just a shame they are not made with better ingredients.  If thye were, I can just imagine what Hill's would charge for them too.  It would become unafforadable for most people.

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

ORIGINAL: sillysally

Also consider that often the j/d has to be further supplimented.  The vet that operated on Jack's elbow and his PT vet both told me to get an extra joint supp for him. 

Its not supposed to be supplemented. The idea of prescription foods is to increase compliance by giving the dog needs in their food. Its easy to get owners to feed their pets, they do that already, its harder to get them to give medicines, and even harder yet to get them to change or improve their feeding strategies by homecooking or supplementing if it gets any more complicated than a single pill. You have to remember most dog owners don't do NEARLY as much as everyone here.

Well, both vets seperately told me that he would need something more than what was just in the food.  The recommendation is on the care sheet we recieved for Jack right after his surgery.  The physical therapist told me that there is legally only so much glucosimine and chondroitin that Hill's can put into the food and in her opinion that amount is not enough for Jack.

At the time we were already giving him four pain pills a day, so it was not like it was a huge deal just to throw another one on the food.

Not on the packaging. You can substitute the word cancer for hangnail above and say the same thing. It does not matter what the claim is, what matters is the law. They could probably reclaim unopened boxes and repackage under different labeling?

 
We are not talking packaging we are talking advertising, literature, in public, in person, on the phone, to anyone that would listen. The bottom line is they were lying to desperate pet owners to make a buck, you can defend that if you want.
 
Harrington-McGill did remove the claims from the product labels, but the claims later showed up in the firm's promotional literature.
 
FDA investigator Evanguel Strickland, posing as a potential customer, telephoned Solid Gold. He said he was ordering several products for his "sick dog with arthritis" and mentioned that his dog had trouble conceiving. Harrington-McGill took the phone order and told him that Solid Gold's "Yucca-Anise" would "clear up arthritis by rebuilding the damaged tissue with new cells." She also sold Strick three other products--"SeaMeal,"Concept-A-Bitch," and "Positive Perls Oil of Evening Primrose"--which she claimed would relieve swelling, clear up rashes, and aid conception during breeding.

ORIGINAL: jenns

It's just a shame they are not made with better ingredients.  If thye were, I can just imagine what Hill's would charge for them too.  It would become unafforadable for most people.

Well, if there is enough demand for better ingredients, or if someone ELSE would dish out the half a million dollars to prove that the trendy ingredients are healthier, they probably would change...

Hills doesn't profit more from their foods than any other company. They spend quite a bit of money on RESEARCH instead of making unjustified claims and using scare tactics to sell their foods.

I have never used any SG products so I don't mean to sound like I am defending their business practice or how they market.
What I do know is regardless of the dog food company, that company must abide by state labeling laws and be in compliance.
It think may be possible for a company to produce a feed in one state, and that feed could be illegal if sold in that state due to labeling laws.

Hopefully SG is on Blackwatch feed thumbs up list.  That way we can tie this in somehow despite veering off track in the thread in multiple directions.

Anyway, I had read some interesting testimonials over at the Abady website (about 1/2 way through the page), in regards to NY state labeling laws and certain cat feed formulas.  It is concerning urinary track infections in cats and feeds developed to resolve that problem.  If the state says you're not in compliance with labeling, your not in compliance.

You are more familiar than I as to what happened with SG.  From what I gather from you then, they got busted for unethical business practice in general, and it has nothing to due with what is going on with labeling?  Why am I not surprised?  Thing is, how do you ever really know if the claim is valid unless you try the product.  Take the UTI formulas for example, I guess one never knows unless you give it a chance?

it's a good idea. But their ingredients in most of their prescription formulas are inexcusable. They should be ashamed. They are putting "making a little extra money by using cheap garbage ingredients" ahead of dog's health. They could so easily make their prescription diets healthier. But that would cut into their profit. Shame on them.

 
    So why aren't the super premium companies making prescription foods with healthier ingredients, especially if all they have to do is study scientific literature to develop the diets.

ORIGINAL: jessies_mom

So why aren't the super premium companies making prescription foods with healthier ingredients, especially if all they have to do is study scientific literature to develop the diets.

Don't get me wrong - I like the super-premium companies - but to make prescription diets would contradict their attitude that dogs never get sick on their foods [8|]

So why aren't the super premium companies making prescription foods with healthier ingredients

Maybe if people fed these super premium foods in the first place they wouldnt need to resort to the prescription foods.
I can not see anyone taking a huge step backward from feeding something like innova,evo,natures variety etc etc and feeding science diet.....

Even if a dog did need one of the rx foods for say kidney problems,chances are the food would bring on other ailments aswell that the dog may not have developed had he eaten a more appropriate food.

Even if a dog did need one of the rx foods for say kidney problems,chances are the food would bring on other ailments aswell that the dog may not have developed had he eaten a more appropriate food.

 
Since we don't all get dogs as puppies, especially healthy puppies, there's still much than can and does go wrong. I'd like to see a company use better ingredients for prescription foods. But...there may not be much market for them. A lot of people are turning to holistic vets and nutritionists for diet sources when their pets have health conditions. One of my dogs has mild kidney issues and what is a good diet for one level of kidney disease wouldn't be a good diet at another level of kidney disease. He also has dysplasia, and needs to keep muscle mass on his large frame.  I also want my dog to have the benefit of ingredients that are fresher than anything in a can and to have some variety. So...IMO, it would be very difficult to make prescription foods with the whole dog in mind.
 
And....would vet's recommend them? Most likely not, unless they were the same vets that will refer you to a nutritionist or help you with a diet in the first place. A $200.00 consult with Monica Segal and using fresh ingredients is actually cheaper in a pretty short amount of time than using prescription foods.

ORIGINAL: Edie

So why aren't the super premium companies making prescription foods with healthier ingredients

Maybe if people fed these super premium foods in the first place they wouldnt need to resort to the prescription foods.
I can not see anyone taking a huge step backward from feeding something like innova,evo,natures variety etc etc and feeding science diet.....

Even if a dog did need one of the rx foods for say kidney problems,chances are the food would bring on other ailments aswell that the dog may not have developed had he eaten a more appropriate food.

Man, I sure wish it was that easy, but there isn't ANY diet that is going to prevent wear and tear on organs, the DNA oopses and viruses that cause cancer, make up for bad breeding, or prevent infectious diseases and parasitism.

I just switched Romeo to a super premium food, but I certainly don't expect it to cure all of his problems just because it has a respected name and its ingredients sound better.

Don't get me wrong - I like the super-premium companies - but to make prescription diets would contradict their attitude that dogs never get sick on their foods

 
   I like them too, especially since it's hard to find a non-holistic brand that doesn't have chicken, which Jessie is allergic to. I wonder if the super-premium companies lack the resources (staff, research facilities, etc.) to make RX foods.

Gee, there are a lot interesting ideas, thoughs and ideas that are totally against each other.  One thing crossed my mind.  if a coi mpany is telling you to feed 25% less for the health of your dog, wouldn't that mean they re saying buy 3 bags of food and not 4, and that would cut into their profit.  Seems strange that if they are totally out for profit they would spend all that money doing research and then say don't buy as much food.  That isn't the way to make money.
 
I give my dogs sups, just as hubby and i take them.  I have never read the Blackwatch feed  program and don't know much about it.  What I do know is all the different nutritional folks have different ideas as to what to feed, what ingredients are good and what are bad.  One says by-products are good, another says they are awful.  One says grains are no good, another says grains are good.  Just how does ANYONE know for sure which is right, which is wromg?    If you are doing as one says and your dog is doing great, then i say stick withat that nutritionist says.
 
I had to laugh at the SG claims.  Made me think of the old traveling medicine shows with the Majik Elixer that could cure everything from bunions to toothache, tired muscles to pnemonia.  Plain old snake oil. venders.
 
No food is perfect for every dog.  I have noticed many dogs here on premium foods of one kind or another having troubles with upset  tummies, gas,  pudding poops, itches, etc.  on another premium brand they do great.  And some dogs do not do good on premium brands.
 
But no mater what your feed your dog, when it gets older, it's organs do wear out, nothing can stop that.  however i think joint sups on top of the food with the bluco added is needed for older dogs with joint problems.  i think probotics are good for older dogs whose immune system, etc, is not as good as when he was a young dog, etc.