Need help finding a healthy, weight control food

It looks like the important distinction is whether or not you believe the dog will be seriously harmed by not getting the weight off quickly.  Just reducing the amount of the current food is probably the best bet for most dogs, but giving a tiny amount of food to a morbidly obese dog will make for a miserable dog especially when they are used to volume.  Looks like the same kind of issues for people. It's a lot easier to say just reduce your calories and you will loose weight then actually do it.  Most people have fat pets because they can't say no to begin with and have difficulty regulating what their pet is consuming.  Maybe I need to expand my practice to include gastric bypasses in dogs? (I'm kidding, please no angry PM's). 

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

ORIGINAL: jojo the pogo
Would you feed Purina Fit and Trim if your dog was overwieght?

My dogs will never be overweight... I control their portions carefully and they get quite a bit of excercise daily. My cats however, ARE overweight, and eat w/d prescription food, a low calorie high fiber prescription food that works well for them. It would work better if they got some excercise...

 
You are saying right there that portion control and exercise  is the healthy way to keeping weight down, so why are you advocating Fit and Trim?  Why are these dogs that are being recommended Fit and Trim overweight to begin with?  Isn't the usual reason overfeeding and lack of excercise?  Same reasons that human children in this country are overweight?  Also, the feeding of table scraps in addition to dog food is a huge contributor to obsesity.  The dogs in the Purina study that lived longer were fed controlled portions.  Not Fit and Trim or other foods chock full of fillers.  The Purina website istelf  advocates diet restriction, cutting back on treats and increasing exercise as a way to get your dog to optimal body condition. 

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

I would personally never recommend this food to a dog like Tucker, who is only moderately obese and needing to lose 20% of his body weight. However, I would practically insist on it for dogs like the one I mentioned earlier this week, the 140 lb rottweiler with siezures. That dog needed to lose nearly 40% of its body weight, and that wasn't going to happen without some serious dieting...

There are a surprising number or morbidly obese pets in the world, and for those dogs, the importance of ingredients (incredibly important for most dogs) pales in comparison to the need to lose weight, and therefore is a non-issue. If purina pro plan weight control would increase their fiber level to 12%, then I would recommend that food instead, but until then, purina fit & trim is the morbidly obese dogs diet of choice based on the parameters scientifically proven to increase weight loss and listed in the previous post.

For a morbidly obese dog that needs to take weight off fast, yes I can see where an extreme diet is needed. But for the short term, just to take the weight off. After that- a healthy diet and exercise. But for a dog to be a food that is almost strictly grains with added colors, "animal" fat, "animal" digest, and menadione for their ENTIRE life? Definitely not the healthiest food by a long shot.

ORIGINAL: jenns
You are saying right there that portion control and exercise  is the healthy way to keeping weight down, so why are you advocating Fit and Trim?  Why are these dogs that are being recommended Fit and Trim overweight to begin with? 

There are as many ways to become obese as there are diets to fix the problem. Yes, the #1 reason most dogs are obese is due to overfeeding and lack of excercise. There are a LOT of owners who are barely able to limit the treats (I argued with a guy for 45 minutes once about why feeding his 18 lb yorkie 3 pieces of bread a day in addition to unlimited kibble was bad for him) let alone give the dog more excercise.

Obviously my experiences with owners and owner compliance is different from all of you, and therefore I'm more willing to take drastic measures in specific instances.

As for the Purina study, the dogs were NOT restricted fed, which is what makes the study so interesting. The dogs were paired with littermates according to sex and birthweight, and one dog was FREE FED for 15 minutes. The food was then weighed daily and the partner dog was fed 25% less than the free fed dogs. Because these dogs were labradors, I'm sure you can imagine that the majority of dogs were actually overfed, even the dogs fed restricted amounts. Even so, the dogs that were fed less food lived much longer, with the oldest dog living to the ripe old age of 14. Dogs don't live long to begin with, and having solid proof that feeding your dog 25% less can increase lifespan by 15% is incredible.

Lets see Timberwolf do a 14 year study of dogs fed recommended amounts and have their dogs live 15% longer than the dog fed Purina dog chow. While I can imagine that the timberwolf dogs would live longer, I very much doubt it would be 15% longer... therefore obesity is more important than ingredients, and fit and trim is a viable option in obese animals.

Dogs don't live long to begin with, and having solid proof that feeding your dog 25% less can increase lifespan by 15% is incredible.

Fed 25% less than what?

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus

Dogs don't live long to begin with, and having solid proof that feeding your dog 25% less can increase lifespan by 15% is incredible.

Fed 25% less than what?

Dogs were paired up. One dog was free fed, the other dog was fed 25% less (by weight) than its free fed partner.

Tamara,
Here is the study, it is very well done prospective and randomized

[linkhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15706972&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15706972&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum[/link]

they fed 25% less food.  I've posted this several times before, but food restriction in general in humans, mice, dogs, has been proven to lengthen life.  The amount of food used as the "normal" amount is calculated with a variety of equations we use to find KCal/day.  There are stress factors and all kinds of complicated things in the equation.  I use them to determine how much to feed patients in the ICU (tube feeds or TPN) and such too. We also can do nitrogen balance studies and UUN to determine optimum daily caloric needs.  I can't remember what they did in the purina study you can read it above.  I haven't read it for a few months. (oh and that's the abstract, you will need to find the journal or purchase it online if you want the whole thing)

Thank you Ottoluv and Misskiwi. I do have confidence in the study. I should have been more clear in my question. The thing that I'm wondering about it how it relates to our dogs; whether I'm feeding Gingerbread the equivalent of that "25% less" amount.

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus

Thank you Ottoluv and Misskiwi. I do have confidence in the study. I should have been more clear in my question. The thing that I'm wondering about it how it relates to our dogs; whether I'm feeding Gingerbread the equivalent of that "25% less" amount.

If gingerbread is maintaining her ideal weight, then yes, you are feeding her the equivalent of the 25% less. The study basically gave proof that proper food restriction increases lifespan. Purina actually modified their body condition scoring chart to list a lighter weight dog as more ideal than their older body weight chart. Keeping a dog lean and active is by far the best way to keep a healthy pet.

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

If gingerbread is maintaining her ideal weight, then yes, you are feeding her the equivalent of the 25% less. The study basically gave proof that proper food restriction increases lifespan. Purina actually modified their body condition scoring chart to list a lighter weight dog as more ideal than their older body weight chart. Keeping a dog lean and active is by far the best way to keep a healthy pet.

Thanks. He's definitely at his ideal weight; his vet is always very pleased with his condition. []

Anyway, I won't ask anymore questions because I don't want to hijack Westiegirl's thread any further.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jojo the pogo
Honestly, I think Royal Canin Labrador is the best weight management formula out there.



Royal Canin Labrador is not formulated for weight loss, but any diet fed in proper proportions can facilitate weight loss... with only 281 calories per cup, it would be easy to control portions in this food. If you look, it actually has fewer calories per cup than Purina Fit & Trim... I wonder how much those dogs poop? Isn't that the #1 test of dog food quality?

Royal Canin Labrador:
Guaranteed Analysis Crude Protein Minimum 30.0% Crude Fat Minimum 13.0% Crude Fiber Maximum 5.7% Moisture Maximum 10.0% Vitamin E Minimum 600 mg/kg Vitamin C Minimum 300 mg/kg L-Carnitine Minimum 200 mg/kg

Since you won't answer the question, and instead rephrased the meaning out of what I said, let me put it this way...

If you were to adopt or rescue an overwieght dog, would you feed it Fit and Trim?

Your not the only soon to be vet on this board.  There is another vet student on this board who highly advocates Royal Canin.  It's not me, but I'm sure she'll come around some time.   I think it is a great food and have seen good results.  I've seen good results with Pro Plan too and often recommend it.  But I would never ever recommend Fit and Trim.  I've read the articles on calorie reduction and increased life span, I believe it.  But Fit and Trim is not a healthy diet and I truely believe that the crudy ingredients, whether they make the dog loose wieght or not will shorten a dogs life span, compared to feeding a weight management food with quality ingredients - meaning without food colors, corn hulls and soy hulls.

And by the way, don't lecture me on the value of Purina.  I work for their Indiana distributor.  I sell the stuff.  They make some great products. Then they make some well marketed products and an economy line product.  Fit and Trim falls into economy line.  The OP is can so obviously feed better than an economy line food.

I'd rather not step in here guys, so please keep it down to a low roar.......

Eat healthful food and move more. Works for all of us.

Whens the last time you saw a human diet plan that was tasteful and healthy that worked?

I eat it, every day[] It's tough to be overweight, when you're vegan and don't tolerate most processed foods in any meal-sized amount. I lost 55 pounds when I initially eliminated animal products from my diet, and have gotten healthier and healthier as I've remained vegan.

On the topic of doggy diets, for a committed owner and a normal, healthy dog, I don't see the need for a weight loss diet. Teenie lost over 50% of her body weight on reduced portions of normal food, and increased amounts of exersize. She maintains on a normal portion of normal food, and sleeping under a fuzzy blankie, 23 hours per day (which is the activity that makes her happiest).

weight-loss foods are a gimmick for owners-- owners simply can't bear to feed their dog a miniscule quantity of food.  Royal Canin lab food is a great example. The kibbles are huge puffy things, mostly air, so the owner can feed the dog a lot of them without giving too many calories. Unfortunately the ingredients, like ALL weight loss foods, are not good for the dog's long term health (the stuff is mostly corn gluten).  Just because the dog is skinny does not necessarily mean the dog is as healthy as he could be.
 
Harden your heart and feed less of a good food and exercise the dog more. Buy a smaller dog bowl if the amount you're feeding looks ridiculously small.  Many dogs tend to convert carbs straight into body fat, so picking a low-carb food is also a good idea-- TWO wild n natural, reduced fat evo, raw diet, canned foods.