Dog Community

Feeding Jack-Hill's j/d-other food options?

Posted : 5/10/2007 6:25:59 PM

For those that may not know, my 10 month old lab Jack was diagnosed with elbow dysplasia yesterday:http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=341490

So I am very confused by this feeding thing. He has been on Eagle Pack Holistic Large and Giant Breed Puppy since I've had him. The vet at Purdue told us to put Jack on Hill's Perscription j/d. Here is the info on it (ingrediants, etc):http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/products/product_details.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441776675&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302037389&bmUID=1178761420633
Actually, on the bag we got the first ingredient is corn meal.

A few things about this worry me--

-lots of grains
-few actual meats
-17% protein

The only experience I've had with low protein foods was giving Sally Burns (18.5%) after she was sick with a kidney infection and she did worse on it then she has any other food (lost muscle tone, horrible coat/skin), so I'm a bit nervous giving this amount to Jack.

On the other hand, I am hesitant to go against the vet's advice, since I have not ever dealt with something like this before.

If I don't give him the Hill's, I'm at a loss as what to give him. I have been hearing that grains can be bad for the joints, so my only options there are the grainless kibbles. However, I have also read that potatos are bad for arthritis--here is the quote from a site about pano:

"Kathryn Butterfield-Davis switched a 3 month old litter of Lab puppies from Nature's Recipe Puppy to a Lamb, Rice & Potato (LR&

) adult dog food. Six of the 10 pups whose owners kept them on the LR&

kibble developed almost debilitating pano. Two of the owners overexercised their pups and the pups could hardly get up. All the puppy owners who had their pups on the LR&

food were told to switch to a quality Lamb & Rice only dog food. Within a day, the pups vastly improved. Kathryn suspects that the LR&

contains parts of the potato with the alkaloid solanine, which aggravates arthritis. Kathryn also felt that, since this was an incredibly fast-growing litter and with so many affected puppies, genetics probably played a large role in the development of pano."

So now I am really confused. If grains irritate joints and potatos irritate joints, and foods like Evo are obviously out of the question, what is left? I don't feel confident enough in my skills as a homecooker (never done it before) to balence things correctly, especially for a growing dog with a medical issue. I've thought about the premade RAWS, but aren't those pretty high in protein too?

I could really use some advice--about the Hill's j/d (both good and bad experiences for those who have fed it), as well as about alternative foods--I am not opposed to supps.....

I am so very confused......[sm=help.gif]

papillon806

Posted : 5/10/2007 6:40:24 PM

Hmm....I was looking on there to see how many mg of Glucosamine, etc was in it but couldn't see it. Does it have it listed on the bag? If so, you could try and find another food that has a comparable amount (since that is all the J/D is designed to do--besides being low calorie).

sillysally

Posted : 5/10/2007 6:45:50 PM

No unfortunately it does not mention it on the bag.....

brookcove

Posted : 5/10/2007 6:54:12 PM

Ya know, for the money you'd spend on the prescription diet (and the inconvenience of having to get it at the vet) - I'd get a custom diet made by one of the experts often mentioned here - Monica Segal or Mordanna. I'm with you, that j/d looks really icky - and you can add the supplements in forms that are more readily absorbed, seperately. Very likely the vet deals with people for whom the j/d is a step up in nutrition! Probably not used to dealing with people who are comfortable home cooking or finding and using appropriate supplements, themselves.

jennie_c_d

Posted : 5/10/2007 7:36:52 PM

What I feed is a carefully portion controlled, grain free diet, with joint supplements added. I do feed potatoes, and haven't had a problem. If I had an otherwise healthy dog, and wanted to do kibble, I'd probably choose TO's Wild N Natural, for it's calcium content (it's fine for LB pups) and VERY carefully control the portions. I weigh my dogs monthly.

snownose

Posted : 5/10/2007 7:40:36 PM

My vet swears by the Prescription Diet, also Eukanuba..............I have no clue what she is thinking at the time, but she has been really good with my animals.[8D]

tzu_mom

Posted : 5/10/2007 8:01:12 PM

Here's a great read regarding one woman's approach to diet for her dog with elbow dysplasia: [linkhttp://www.dogaware.com/arthritis.html]http://www.dogaware.com/arthritis.html[/link]

This site also offers alternatives to traditional pain medications. Most vets that I know will limit or totally exlcude grains from a diet for a dog with joint problems.

brookcove

Posted : 5/10/2007 8:07:52 PM

When we get Doug the Dog back from his lease job in Vegas, I'll be using a grain free mixer like Sojos or more likely Know Better (since I already get the cat food) for him. He has hip dysplasia, but I can't put him on grain free kibbles because he's sensitive to fat content. With the mixer I can use very lean meats and he gets the benefit of raw, too.

jessies_mom

Posted : 5/10/2007 8:37:34 PM

Hmm....I was looking on there to see how many mg of Glucosamine, etc was in it but couldn't see it. Does it have it listed on the bag? If so, you could try and find another food that has a comparable amount (since that is all the J/D is designed to do--besides being low calorie).

No unfortunately it does not mention it on the bag.....

It lists it in the ingredients on the website; [linkhttp://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/products/product_details.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441776675&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302037389&bmUID=1178846693216]http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/products/product_details.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441776675&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302037389&bmUID=1178846693216[/link]

Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Flaxseed, Soybean Mill Run, Brewers Rice, Soybean Meal, Peanut Hulls, Chicken Liver Flavor, Fish Oil, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Egg Product, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, Soy Lecithin, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Chondroitin Sulfate, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

It's supposed to be high in fatty acids;
"Hill's® Prescription Diet® j/d™ Canine is an innovative dog food that helps maintain healthy joints and improves mobility in dogs. Its unique formula contains high levels of EPA (Eicosapentanoic Acid), an omega-3 fatty acid found in high concentrations in fish oil. Research has shown that EPA can help maintain joint function. Enhanced levels of glucosamine and chondroitin provide the building blocks of healthy cartilage, and L-carnitine, which helps maintain optimum body weight. j/d™ Canine improves the quality of life by helping dogs run better, play better, and rise more easily."

Perhaps you could add fatty acid supplements and joint supplements to what you feed Jake now? I'm glad he didn't have cancer; I know you were worried about that.

Misskiwi67

Posted : 5/10/2007 11:12:47 PM

The ingredient list looks yucky, but the food itself is amazing. I would try it, or supplement with high levels of fatty acids and glucosamine yourself. I'm a huge believer in fatty acid supplements, and j/d has high levels that are easy to get into the dog.

Ignore the ingredients, give it 6 weeks, if you hate it, you can always try something else...

Stacita

Posted : 5/10/2007 11:24:55 PM

I'd supplement a diet myself. Does he have any other health problems? If not, I'd probably try for something close to a prey model with glucosamine, salmon oil & E plus a daily anti-oxidant.

Wolfgang doesn't do so well on potatoes but somehow does OK on white rice for hip dysplasia. He's on a cooked diet because well he just doesn't like raw and his kidneys aren't good either. We also do accupressure treatments.

Edie

Posted : 5/11/2007 2:09:04 AM

Ignore the ingredients, give it 6 weeks, if you hate it, you can always try something else...

Yeah but what about the long term health of the dog????.This food "may" help his joints for now,but it could be detrimental to his health in other ways...

Sally if i was in your position i would try Timberwolf's wild & natural and supplement with Gluc/Chon and fish oil.

Luvntzus

Posted : 5/11/2007 2:54:50 AM

Ewww. It's basically corn, by products (the ONLY meat), peanut hulls, soybean "mill run", with a few healthy supplements like Glucosamine and L carnitine. I think that you can probably get the same benefits from a better food- without the downside of feeding those crappy ingredients.

To me it seems like even though Jack isn't a senior, Eagle Pack Senior Care would probably be a really good choice. It has 26% protein and 10% fat, plus L carnitine, glucosamine, and yucca.

http://www.eaglepack.com/Pages/HS_SeniorCare.html

schlep

Posted : 5/11/2007 4:09:30 AM

I would [linkhttp://jmarsman@eaglepack.com]e-mail John Marshman[/link] with Eagle and get his thoughts since you've been feeding L&GBP.

Misskiwi67

Posted : 5/11/2007 7:39:19 AM

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus

Ewww. It's basically corn, by products (the ONLY meat), peanut hulls, soybean "mill run", with a few healthy supplements like Glucosamine and L carnitine. I think that you can probably get the same benefits from a better food- without the downside of feeding those crappy ingredients.

Sigh... I really wish people would get over the "corn is evil, and by-products aren't nutritious" balogney... and I really wish Hills would learn to put more meat in their foods... Honestly, the food kicks @ss and if you don't want to believe me because the ingredients list looks "yucky" to you... thats fine. A list of words on paper cannot tell you the full nutritional profile of the food, and thats a fact.

Use appropriate proportions of vitamin E with your fatty acids and supplement heavily if you want to get the same effects as the food.