Homecooking-Organ Meat Question

I've been wondering the same thing myself.   I've been looking at so many danged spreadsheets my head is splitting and the thing I've noticed is that there are severel minerals in organ meats that you really can't get anywhere else, so my guess is that the commercial foods that don't have organ meats make up the difference with additional supplements .... just a theory, so please don't take my word for it.  
I'm also figuring out that I'm going to need to get a batch of supplements - I can't get Prancer the amts she needs without really overdoing the Vit-A (from liver) or really going over her caloric intake
::::::::::::: sigh ::::::::::::::::::   this is sooooooooooooo much work - but if it keeps her healthy I'm willing to try

Yeah, it's for the vitamins and minerals.  Most people don't add in alot of supplements.  Always the calcium. Alot will do fish oil and vit E twice a week, some people give vit E more than twice a week.  Vit E given twice a week is probably minimal and actually about where my preference lies.  The body uses vit E in small amounts to process the fish oil.   Some people will give kelp and alfalfa (for those dogs not allergic / or who don't have thyroid issues).  You can get these at the b-naturals site.  But, then alot of people don't even give the kelp and alfalfa.. 
 
From what I have read, the organ meat should be given in small amounts daily and that should cover things well b/c you are supposed to give a wide variety of foods.  The variety of foods will balance things over time.  With dog food, the same exact food is given every day, so it has to have a bunch of stuff in it every day.  But, with home feeding, the aim is not to balance every day, but over time with the vitamins and minerals (except for calcium, which should be done at every meal).
 
Organ meat should be 5-10% of diet, made up of liver and kidney.  Going toward the high end can cause the runs in some dogs, and I don't think anyone should do more than 5% of liver, and probably a percentage less b/c of the high vit A content.   Beef heart is not considered an organ, but a muscle meat - but it is a very good "meat" to add b/c it's high in taurine and other things.
 
That's what I have learned so far........................

ORIGINAL: willowchow

I notice these homecooked sites say organ meat should be about 5% or so of the diet.  But, for example, my NB fish does not include any type of organ meat.  And, I know there are other kibble that also don't include it. 

So, is it necessary in homecooked?

 
Hi Lori,
Unfortunately another term for the organ meat is by-products and when used in an ingredient like Chicken By-Product Meal people run for cover.  Have no fear you can make do at the supermarket.  Look for a small tub of Chicken Hearts at the grocer.  We use to buy them as bait sometimes for riverbank fishing. Chop up about one heart or maybe a half
if they're big and add to the meal, and that should give you roughly 5%.  Your dog is a good size though, but if this is something you want to do just try to eyeball 5%.

Honestly, I really don't want to add organ.  She ends up with the runs even when she tries those liver treats for any length of time.
 
What does everyone think about me feeding her a rice/meat combo with probably Solid Gold bone meal supplement for calcium.  A multi-vitamin and Grizzly Salmon oil until this whole thing blows over and I can find a kibble to add back in. 
 
Does that sound reasonable, unreasonable??  Opinons???

I think it sounds close enough, for now. If you wanted to do it long term, I'd have a nutritionist take a look at it, with the knowledge that Willow has IBS and needs to keep a bland diet.

Lynn has a multi that she's using, for her dogs. They're eating a simple diet, too (she's working in additional ingredients, towards eliminating the multi, I think?). You could PM her and see which one she's using. I think her vet or nutritionist suggested it? It looked good, to me, and like something Emma could handle. I'm feeding enough organ, though, that she doesn't need a multi.

Not feeding organ meat is fine, so long as you give a multi-vitamin.  You probably will want to use a human multi, since most made for dogs include dessicated liver.

Instead of rice, you may want to feed quinoa.  It's more nutrient-dense.

-Lindsay

ORIGINAL: willowchow

Honestly, I really don't want to add organ.  She ends up with the runs even when she tries those liver treats for any length of time.

What does everyone think about me feeding her a rice/meat combo with probably Solid Gold bone meal supplement for calcium.  A multi-vitamin and Grizzly Salmon oil until this whole thing blows over and I can find a kibble to add back in. 

Does that sound reasonable, unreasonable??  Opinons???

Honestly, I really don't want to add organ. She ends up with the runs even when she tries those liver treats for any length of time.

What does everyone think about me feeding her a rice/meat combo with probably Solid Gold bone meal supplement for calcium. A multi-vitamin and Grizzly Salmon oil until this whole thing blows over and I can find a kibble to add back in.

Does that sound reasonable, unreasonable?? Opinons???

 
This sounds reasonable to me. I use white rice because Wolfgang needs low phosphorus. With brown rice, I probably wouldn't start with all brown because the fiber may cause a problem with the IBS.
 
We use Vetri-Science senior multiple.
 
Good luck to you and Miss Willow.

Just for information sake,  heart is considered a very good muscle meat to add in, but it is not considered an organ meat.
 
Lori, I would not do the bone meal.  Bone meal has phospourus in it anyway, and it's the phospourus that you are trying to balance and this will just create more ash.
 
I would either do the egghell method where you rinse and dry eggshells (put in toaster at low temp) and grind in a new, never used coffee grinder and add at 1/2 tsp (teaspoon) per pound of all food given (meat and veggies, grains).  
 
 Or order calcium citrate in powder form. NOW has an 8 oz jar,  or can buy in bulk like Jennie does.  With this, you would use a different measurement.  You would actually use more than the 1/2 tsp b/c citrate is "bulkier", but how much depends on the amount of calcium listed on the label.
 
One average eggshell = 1800 mg calcium = one teaspoon.  So, you would be using 900 mg at 1/2 tsp per pound of food with the eggshell.    NOW citrate is listed at 700 mg per teaspoon. So, you can see that citrate is much bulkier and would need more.  However, citrate is more absobable than eggshell is. 
 
Add the calcium no matter whether you use organs or get a multi.
 
My multi is by Thorne Research, a human vitamin company that has a good reputation.  The one I get is the CANINE BASICS, not the geriatric one b/c this one has too much vit A.   It doses at one capsule for 25 lbs.  I end up giving a tad less by weight.  Haven't worked the figures up yet to see if this is alright, but right now I'm giving about 75% of the called for amount.  The bottle cost $25, I order two at a time to help with shipping.

Using heart along with a multi may be a good compromise - it's a very good source of nutrients, but not as rich as liver.