Eukanuba and Pedigree

Isn't Natural Balance on the recall list?

Yes the venison and rice..I think that is the only one that is recalled so far...There has been so many it gets a bit confusing

[Deleted by Admins]

If someone feeds Pedigree or Euk because it is all they can afford, we all know and can offer other options which are also affordable and ten times better.

 
Your opinion for what it is worth but my real performance dogs do great on Eukanuba and I know many other people that really compete in Agility and Obedience that feed the same with great results.
 

Corn may be 91% digestible, but it has zero nutritional value.

You are incorrect, here is the abstract for that study. If you read the entire paper, it explains in detail how they developed the flour from the different protein sources and that the digestibility via ileal cannulation is in regards to PROTEIN content from the source. Last time I checked, protein had nutritional value. The digestibility of corn is actually 87% not 91%. If you are not affiliated with an acedemic institution you may have to pay for the full paper unfortunately but the abstract is free.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=10461997&query_hl=14&itool=pubmed_DocSum

It's always good to have a doctor in the house.....[]

But why would one want to feed a carnivore a diet of predominately corn?[X(]

Why do pet food manufacture's add corn?For the health and well being of the dogs that will be eating their foods,or because it is a cheap ingredient and filler?

This thread has taken an unpleasant turn for the worse.  Let's keep it nice.
 
As a forum member, I don't care for either food myself.  But, of the two Euk is better.  That's my opinion.  It is also my opinion that dogs enjoy raw even if only now and then and there is no reason not to allow a raw meal or meals.  Organ meat, no matter what is being fed, should average 5% of the daily diet.  This is a fact.
 
When I came to this forum, I was feeding Purina large breed puppy because that's what my vet said to use.  I was led to the better foods very gently by forum members who did NOT beat me up for doing what the vet said to do.  No one screamed and jumped up and down and gave me heck for how I fed, they just very kindly showed me a better way.  I read, a lot, I learned a lot, and I went shopping for something better.  I spent absolute hours in the pet store reading labels.  I too went through the zealous stage where I had to convert the world.  I learned that yep, you really do catch more flies with honey.
 
Right now the pet food industry is teetering....no one can trust any company at the moment and it's frightening.  We're all waiting for the other shoe to drop.  For a good long time I have not even considered Merrick because they've had sooooo many recurring issues with QC.  How do you FORGET to take the metal wing bands off the ding a lings????   How do shipping staples "slip through"??
 
Some of you are throwing stones yet feeding foods with either a proven history of issues, or feeding foods from companies that have been part of the recall.  I guess that goes to show that none of us can claim to have the perfect food.  Even if we homecook, as I do, we still have to be concerned about how the food is grown, what pesticides were used, did a cow crap in or near the field of spinach......nothing is 100% safe.  Not even the human food supply.
 
So, lets knock it off.  Let's leave the snarky food cracks OFF the forum.
 
And Edie?  Well said.  Why indeed.

ORIGINAL: polarexpress

I personally have no problems with some byproducts in there, but prefer muscle meat as a primary source of protein to byproducts.

 
I agree...the primary protein source in a food should be from muscle meat, not byproducts and not corn gluten, although I do understand the great nutritional value that comes with byproducts.  In fact, I would rather see a food that uses byproducts as a protein source than corn gluten - at least it is something that dogs do eat in the wild and are designed to eat.

ORIGINAL: chmissgingerisfancy

At Chewbacca--
I guess you were referring to me, and I am sure this is off-topic, but I made that statement because of my personal beliefs that feeding raw is wrong and unhealthy. This is not the place to debate this topic, it is just my beliefs, which is why I feed cooked whole meat products, such as chicken/lamb/venison breast pieces. I do not believe any by-product has a place in either raw, home-cooked, or kibble. I know that many feed raw, and I am sure it has been debated to death on this forum before.

Sorry, I didn't mean to start a raw debate. While I DO see more of a need for a meat or meat meal to be listed first, by products (raw, cooked, or in dry or canned dog food) are healthy and a nutritious addition to any form or type of canine diet. The problem with by-products is, we cannot be sure WHAT by-products, and even more importantly, how much of the by-products are added to the food. This, of course, is just my opinion. And I don't mean to put your opinion down. It just seemed strong and I felt, warranted a reply to put another idea out there just in case there are some lurkers who read this thread.

Your first real meat in the Eukanuba formula is chicken by-product meal (intestines, feet, etc.

Well now, you had me going on this one. As not all chicken by products are created equal. So I went to the Eukanuba sight to see if they had an ingredient description. Now mind you, this what their web sight has posted....I have no idea if the Euk people would fabricate or falsify their ingredient description, or why they would want to.

"Chicken By-Product Meal (protein)
Chicken by-product meal is flesh and skin, internal organs including intestines, and bone that have been cleaned, dried, cooked and ground. It provides essential amino acids for muscle building, tissue repair, hormone synthesis and other metabolic processes. Internal organs are rich sources of protein, fats, and minerals, such as iron, that are essential to dog and cat health and add to the palatability of the pet food.

Including some ground bone provides a good source of minerals, such as calcium. Some pet-food manufacturers formulate their products without such ingredients to appeal to dog and cat owners, rather than for optimal health of dogs and cats. However, the nutritional needs of dogs and cats are not the same as the nutritional needs of humans. No company can say that their chicken/poultry is absolutely 100% free of beaks, feet, feathers, heads. Our suppliers do not add those parts, we specifically require that they not be included. They would decrease protein quality if they were there in measurable amounts. Tumors should not be there since those birds would be condemned. We use the non-economic parts of chickens that have been through USDA inspection. The advantages of Chicken By-Product Meal are the quality of the protein (quality is measured as biologic value - which is a measure of digestibility and the levels of essential amino acids that it can supply) and the levels of fat and minerals that it supplies - only chicken and egg are judged to be better. Chicken and egg go mostly for human consumption, so that leaves CBPM as the best available source."

I think everyone who feeds their dog a commercial diet owes it to their dog to learn to read a dogfood label and decide what their own comfort zone and finances allow.  There are many good websites and books out there.  Personally, I liked this book:
 
[linkhttp://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DN225]http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DN225[/link]
Performance Dog Nutrition by J. Jacobs
 
Also, just because my dogs do well on X, doesn't mean someone else's will.  I have a friend who feeds ProPlan.  Not what I feed, but she's done her research and her dog has had serious digestive problems on different diets.  ProPlan works for her dog; he looks great.  She asked me about changing foods, but knowing some of his history, I told her I wouldn't change it.  Even to attempt to "upgrade".

ORIGINAL: snownose

Canidae can be found at a local feed store probably right down the street from you that you probably didn't know exsisted. It runs at the highest $34 for a 40lb bag, usually less than that.

I pay $38 plus change for a 40 lb bag at Pet Supply Plus.[8|]

My Goodness, where do you live?  I used to work at a Pet Supplies Plus, and now I work for one of their major distributors.  Canidae, around here anyways, is $32.99.

My Goodness, where do you live? I used to work at a Pet Supplies Plus, and now I work for one of their major distributors. Canidae, around here anyways, is $32.99.

 
 
I purchase it in Winston-Salem, NC.

Also, just because my dogs do well on X, doesn't mean someone else's will.

 
Very true.  And if a dog is doing well on a certain food and then having that food described as garbage or crap is rather disconcerting.  There are alot of differing and varied published opinions on dog food contents and these "experts" can't seen to agree on anything.  Who to you believe?  I won't even go into the great poop debate. 
 
I think that it all goes back to finding a food that does well for your dog and using common sense. 

Plus, some people tend to forget that MANY people have budget and availability restraints. Some of us may be able to afford "ultra-premium" but can't afford the shipping if we live in an area that doesn't sell it. Not all of us have a high-end petstore within a few minutes drive. Heck, the closest Petco to me is a two hour round-trip drive.

Plus, some off those smaller "ultra-premium" manufacturers flat out scare me. There are a few that make some pretty outrageous claims and really push the limits on the FDAs labeling regulations. They also tend to spend as much or more effort explaining why other brands are bad as they do explaining why theirs is better. I always wonder what kind of nutrition education do they have? What kind of studies and trials do they do? What kind of testing do they do? Can they support their claims? The Purinas and Euks of the world may not have "Holistic" and "All Natural" on their labels, but they have studies and feed trials that show that their foods do what they say - particularly with the veterinary diets.