oral health

Hmm thats a good question.. I would think it would work although I have not even thought about that.  Bailey is a HUGE stick eater too.

Sticks are just as dangerous as if you gave a dog a cooked bone. They splinter and could easily perforate the throat, stomach or intestines if he happens to swallow a good chunk.  I don't think it's a very good or safe idea to let your dog chew sticks. I'd introduce him to some nice heavy bones that have a bit of meat on them. I get great beef bones from the butcher that usually have a decent amount of meat left on them to entice my dogs to chew them. Also keeps them busy for hours.

i asked the vet about that and she doesnt recommend it because the dogs can get diseases such as e coli, etc from eating raw meat so i just dont know what to do, it seems like EVERYTHING  is unhealthy.  i dont think  i have any options left.

Jaye,
Bully sticks are good chewies. You can find them at most pet stores. What ever you decide, follow your heart!

Oh for goodness sakes.  E-coli comes from GROUND meats....e-coli is an intesinal thing and when the bowel contents get ground in with the meat, then you have the potential for e-coli.  How on earth is that going to get into a LEG bone????

Jaye, your vet might be wonderful, but s/he is NOT a good source for nutritional information.  Dogs digestive systems are way different than ours....what goes in comes out very quickly.  The system is shorter than our miles and miles of stuff, so nothing sticks around long enough to cause problems as it could in humans.  Lauri has told stories of her dogs getting into stuff that she forgot to bring in and that has been outside for DAYS without a problem.  I think it's Lauri.....she feeds totally 100% raw and has for years.

However, if you are that worried about germs, get a marrow bone and douse it in white vinegar.  Vinegar kills germs just as effectively as bleach without being toxic.

e coli wasnt her only example i cant remember the other ones she listed as possible illnesses to feeding raw.  i actually had asked her about raw meat not raw bones because as far as i can see your going to get basically the same germs or whatever from either.  i dont know if the vet is right but i know there are other people on this forum that agree with her and if theres doubt like that i just dont know if i want to risk it at this point.
 
ill look for the bully chewies
 
is there a difference between pig skins and beef hides?  are pig skins any safer?

oh, and wouldnt vinegar make it unattractive to the dog?  even if you rinsed it off?

I could PEE on raw bones and my dogs would still want them!

Lauri feeds NOTHING but raw, so do many others.  I would feed MORE raw if I didn't live in a state with such strict meat laws....read HIGH prices.....two of my fosters are in a home where they are raw fed most of the time.  I didn't blink an eye when I heard that...I was THRILLED.

Eewww (trying to get that picture outta my head)!
 
Jaye, you should do what feels right to you. If the thought of feeding raw meat OR bones doesn't sit quite right with you, then just don't do it.
You will run into many idoggers that are feeding raw and are very passionate about it, but that does not mean it's the ONLY way.
Personally, I give recreational bones with meat/fat/gristle occasionally, but don't give raw chicken or chicken bones. I'm just NOT comfortable with it personally. I am not going to judge those who do and by the same token, don't want to be bashed because I choose NOT to. [sm=happy.gif]
 
 

Jaye, Emma's stomach has a LOT more hydrochloric acid than yours.
[linkhttp://www.b-naturals.com/Sep2005.php]http://www.b-naturals.com/Sep2005.php[/link]
Dogs can hold chewed food in their stomachs for 4-8 hours after ingestion. The lower pH of the gastric juices provides a barrier against pathogens. Humans, on the other hand, the food may pass through the stomach in as little as 30-60 minutes. The partially digested food may spend as long as 12-60 hours in the intestines before it passes to the colon. This means "the intestines suffer prolonged exposure to whatever germs survive a minimal aid wash in stomach acid".

Humans are FAR more succeptible to germs from raw meat than dogs. My mom once contracted e coli from handling ground beef without gloves. She never ate anything less than well done, but she had a small cut or scratch on her hand. She was sick for months. My severely immune compromised dog chews on raw marrow bones all the time, and hasn't gotten sick from one yet.

BTW, it's not the meat that causes problems. It's contamination. The factory farming industry is pretty disgusting. Humans can eat raw meat, and do just fine with it, as long as it isn't contaminated. E coli doesn't come from meat. It comes from feces.

right, i realize that, but since you cant tell whether the food you bought is contaminated or not.....
 
i also realize that dogs systems can handle things that humans cant, e coli wasnt the only example, salmonella (sp) was another, i cant remember the rest. 
 
now im not saying i think a dog actually would get any of these illnesses from eating raw meat (all meat is potentially contaminated therefore the problem is the meat) or not.  i just dont know and i know there is a lot controversy over the matter.

kennel keeper, for the record, I am NOT a totally raw feeder.  Mine eat Innova, homecooked and a couple raw meals a week.  And NO ONE was bashing anyone.  Yes, we all have to feed within our comfort levels, but for a VET to say how bad it is and how you're gonna kill your dog, well, that's just WRONG.

There really is a lot of controversy. I know of a puppy who almost died of salmonella from a pig's ear. I've eaten raw cookie dough all my life, and I've never gotten it, LOL. My dogs regularly consume raw eggs. It *CAN* happen. I really hope it doesn't, because Emma is weak enough that she'd likely die from it (any little thing can become a major big deal, with her). It's really very uncommon that a dog has a problem from eating unspoiled meat. If the dog were feral, carrion would be a regular part of her diet. Fresh meat from a grocery store isn't likely to kill her.

My dogs also slurp up any poop they can find, LOL. They've eaten fresh chicken poop, which is a MAJOR source of salmonella (where it comes from in eggs and chicken meat.... you don't wanna know, really). They've eaten all kinds of crazy nasty stuff.

Really, I guess it all comes down to what you're comfortable with. If you're comfortable with your dog being a dog, and running around, eating whatever it finds, fine. If not, fine, put it on a leash. If you're ok with using the occasional raw bone, do it. It's GOOD for your dog! If you're not, good luck finding something that's ok. For me, bully sticks are ridiculously expensive, and they scarf them down super fast. I tried Zuke's chewies, and the lasted all of 20 minutes (at $3.50 per treat). I gave Em a Greenie when she was a puppy, and she bit the thing in half, and tried to swallow the big half. I gave them edible Nylabones, and Teenie broke a tooth on one. I gave up. They get marrow bones, once or twice a week. They LOVE them, and the bones survive hours of chewing, most of the time.

thanks for all the input, i probably will pick up some bones for her either today or within the next couple days.  it seems like there is a risk with anything but one thing thats agreed is that she needs something to chew on, theres hazards with all of the options so i just hafta pick one and hope for the best.  if i just ask the butcher at the grocery store will he know what kind of bones would work best? (i dont know anything about meat or bones and i dont know what you mean by marrow bones i thought all bones have marrow).