Beneful Problems

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

They were fed a purina puppy food for a while, not sure of specifics and I'm not sure how long. They were originally going to keep them on the same food for the entire study, but the dogs got too fat, so they had to switch them to an adult food.

I do not remember how long the first dog to die lived, but the longest lived 14 years. The guy who gave the presentation knew the dog, and it was really obvious they loved him a lot... it was crazy because I didn't know they got that attached to research dogs. Then again, when you've put 15 years of your life into a study, and the one dog is all thats left, I guess it would be normal to get all choked up about it...

Aww.  Yeah, I can understand.  I am attached to one of the transgenic rats we are using for cholestrol studies.  We've been doing it for 2 years with the same batch and he's the sire we've been using.  I want to take him home!! lol  They wanted to use him for one of the xenografting studies (which would mean he would have to die when they did the extraction) and I subtley directed their attention towards a different rat [8D].  I know it's nothing like 15 years with a dog, but I can relate.

Take him home! Take him home!!

I know the lady in charge of lab animal rescources here has several cats, chickens and 2 dogs from various research projects here at vet med. Surely they will let you sneak him out when his services are over?

What did you find that your were comparing to? Its been 2 years since we had the presentation, so I hope I'm remembering everything correctly!

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

Take him home! Take him home!!

I know the lady in charge of lab animal rescources here has several cats, chickens and 2 dogs from various research projects here at vet med. Surely they will let you sneak him out when his services are over?

When we conclude the study in April.  I'm hoping that they won't use him for anything else, but I have a bad feeling they will since he's one of the most successful transgenic rats we've had as far as passing it to his offspring.  []  I named him Dudley....sometimes we call him Studley....lol

[linkhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=11991408&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=11991408&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum[/link]
 
Here is the study.  Anyone involved in research understands how increadibly expensive it is.  The salary alone of the researchers was probably more then $200,000/year if they had at least 4 full time researchers.  The materials, space, etc.  Millions for a 10+ year study is nothing.  You want to see expensive, you would love to see the bill for some of my investigational new drug studies, whoa nelly. 
 
The study did not look at overfeeding dogs, it looked at 25% caloric reduction.  This has been well studied in humans as well and a 10% decrease in caloric intake for people from ideal also results in increased longevity.  IMO one should actually read the study in it's entirety before making blanket statments about what it says. 
 
Ps. the link is for the abstract, you will need to pay if you want the whole thing, wouldn't want to break any copyright laws

ORIGINAL: ottoluv

 IMO one should actually read the study in it's entirety before making blanket statments about what it says. 

Do you do investigational new drug studies as a career?? If so, thats awesome. The stuff you guys have to go through is INSANE to get drugs through...

Did you read the study in its entirety? Do you think its as good as they say it is? Its practically worshipped in vet med if you didn't notice... I'd love an outside opinion.

Do you do investigational new drug studies as a career?? If so, thats awesome. The stuff you guys have to go through is INSANE to get drugs through...

Did you read the study in its entirety? Do you think its as good as they say it is? Its practically worshipped in vet med if you didn't notice... I'd love an outside opinion.

Nope not a career thank God!!!  It's more fun to read studies then do them ha ha ha.  It's part of surgical training, you are forced in to research slavery   It's a good experience though, everyone needs to give back to their field.  Kinda like how breeders usually rescue!  Physicians should be involved in research. Just to give everyone some reference on how long it takes.  I submitted a IRB ( institutional review board) application in July for  permission to test Plavix for an off label indication.  7 months and 100 revisions later, I'm just now getting permission to start this study.  New drugs with no FDA approved indications are worse, after approval we have about 15 years of studies before people off protocol can use them.

It's a good study, I think after comparing it to the human literature, it's the same principle, caloric reduction not necessarily the purina foods To make it even stronger the puppies were from just a few litters, I think it was like 42 dogs total for over 12 years.  Now purina sponsored the study, but did not really do it.  I get grants all the time, but the companies don't have any say in what I do.
 
Edit: my spelling sucks!!!

ORIGINAL: ottoluv


Nope not a career thank God!!!  It's more fun to read studies then do them ha ha ha. 

My thoughts exactly. I did some bacterial genetics research (with nematode worms) the summer before last, and it was like being bipolar. Ridiculously bored one day, and ridiculously excited the next. I didn't enjoy the hours (10-6 is a wasted day in my opinion) or the tedious repetition, but most of all I didn't like not being able to see new people every day...

Just wondering where we can find out the results  of all the research & studies these companies  have done--you know the ones that only care about the health of our dogs and  not about profit?    I would like to compare to the ones done by  Purina and see if they agree.

ORIGINAL: papillon806

Honestly, I've never priced Beneful in the grocery store (lol) so you are probably right about that.  I just figured it was cheap b/c so many people use it.  

So many people use it because of the advertising and pictures of meat and vegetables on the bag. They feed it because they don't know a lot about nutrition or how to read an ingredient list, so they think they're buying a healthy food for their dog. [&o]

ORIGINAL: pudel

I found this on the Purina website.  The food is called Purina Healthy Morsels.  This may even be worse than Beneful. What a joke!

Whole grain corn, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, chicken by-product meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), soybean meal, brewers rice, meat and bone meal, beef, pearled barley, sugar, sorbitol, fish oil, calcium phosphate, animal digest, salt, phosphoric acid, potassium chloride, sorbic acid (a preservative), dried peas, dried carrots, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, calcium propionate (a preservative), added color (Red 40, Yellow 5, Blue 2), Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, brewers dried yeast, zinc sulfate, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, manganese sulfate, manganese proteinate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium carbonate, DL-Methionine, Vitamin B-12 supplement, calcium pantothenate, copper sulfate, copper proteinate, thiamine mononitrate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin D-3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite.
G-4037

Exactly. I'm sorry, but are we expected to believe the food above is healthy? [8|] That millions of dollars in research show that a corn and wheat based diet with very little meat is actually GOOD for a dog? Come on, that is absurd.

And yes every company is out to make a profit, but some companies also want to make a product out of the best possible ingredients. Companies like Purina make foods out of cheap, crappy ingredients and use deceptive advertising to get the general public to feed those foods. The average person also doesn't know that ear infections, giant bowel movements, a "doggy" smell and a dry coat aren't normal. [:-]

ORIGINAL: sandra_slayton

Just wondering where we can find out the results  of all the research & studies these companies  have done--you know the ones that only care about the health of our dogs and  not about profit?    I would like to compare to the ones done by  Purina and see if they agree.

I like to use pubmed. I only have access to abstracts (which isn't the greatest way to do research) but its better than nothing. If I need to find a full article, I can run down the road to the library if I need to.

www.pubmed.com

I like to use pubmed. I only have access to abstracts (which isn't the greatest way to do research) but its better than nothing. If I need to find a full article, I can run down the road to the library if I need to.

[linkhttp://www.pubmed.com]www.pubmed.com[/link]

I second pubmed, it is the gold standard for research related literature searches   If you go to a big university library sometimes you get find the artiles on pubmed and read the actual journals that they have there or even get the actual journals online.  Since I'm at a university affiliated hospital I get all the journals online which is really nice
 
EDIT: again my spelling sucks

ORIGINAL: jenns

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

Purina just completed a 10 year multi-million dollar study, which showed that the best thing you can do to keep your dog healthy is to feed 25 percent less food, that doesn't sound like a company whose singular focus is on squeezing every last penny out of pet owners.

They needed to spend millions of dollars to determine that overfeeding your dog is unhealthy?

I could have told them that for free, and they could have put some better ingredients in their foods, with  the money they saved.. []

ORIGINAL: pudel

I found this on the Purina website.  The food is called Purina Healthy Morsels.  This may even be worse than Beneful. What a joke!

Whole grain corn, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, chicken by-product meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), soybean meal, brewers rice, meat and bone meal, beef, pearled barley, sugar, sorbitol, fish oil, calcium phosphate, animal digest, salt, phosphoric acid, potassium chloride, sorbic acid (a preservative), dried peas, dried carrots, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, calcium propionate (a preservative), added color (Red 40, Yellow 5, Blue 2), Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, brewers dried yeast, zinc sulfate, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, manganese sulfate, manganese proteinate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium carbonate, DL-Methionine, Vitamin B-12 supplement, calcium pantothenate, copper sulfate, copper proteinate, thiamine mononitrate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin D-3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite.
G-4037

You are right, it is worse than Beneful.  Or  by the way,  you forgot to highlight menadione....

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

ORIGINAL: jenns

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

Purina just completed a 10 year multi-million dollar study, which showed that the best thing you can do to keep your dog healthy is to feed 25 percent less food, that doesn't sound like a company whose singular focus is on squeezing every last penny out of pet owners.

They needed to spend millions of dollars to determine that overfeeding your dog is unhealthy?

Actually, the original reason they had the study was to determine the effects of body weight and activity levels on hip displasia. 16 years ago, nobody knew anything about the environmental effects of hip displasia. About 4 years into the study, they started seeing marked differences in the health of the animals between the two groups, and so while they still did all the x-rays and such for the hip displasia study, what they REALLY learned was much more valuable. The yearly blood tests, and their committment to treat every medical problem in its entirety (with very complete and accurate records) led to discoveries that were not expected at all. The dogs that were fed 25% less food (and not necessarily kept lean) lived longer and had far fewer health problems overall. Purina changed its caloric intake recommendations AND its body condition score chart as a result of this study. Tell me thats not a job well done? Tell me who else would keep 80 some dogs for 16 years?? There were people who postponed their retirement by 3-4 years for this study...

And seriously people... do you think Innova, Timberwolf and others aren't making a profit too? They make up the fastest growing section of the dog food market, and they're making billions too. Why do you think hills, purina and others are changing their formulas and adding organic formulas? They ALL want to make money.

As a vet student, you all accuse Hills and Purina of giving away too much, of buying my loyalty. Well chew on this and see who's buying loyalty. I pay for hills, I get 20 pounds of Iams free a month, and I get up to 40 pounds of Natura products free. I can get their 95% certified organic food for free if I wanted... and last time I checked it was one of the most expensive foods on the market today. I have had fabulous luck with Natura products, and plan to carry them in my practice someday, right alongside the Hills and Eukaneuba. Who's buying who now??

If you think the "Big 4" are the only companies out there trying to make money, you're blind and naieve.

Oh, and Natura has a brand spanking new, state of the art research facility too. They're planning on being number 5 in the big 4. Smart move in my opinion...

The reason that companies like Purina are now coming out with better products, is that they are being forced to by consumers that are more knowlegable about the foods they feed their pets. It is the same reason that you now see, "low sodium", "trans fat free", low in saturated fat" and similar phrases on the labels  of supermarket foods for people. These big companies couldn't have cared less what junk you fed yourself and your family, as long as business was good.  Now the consumer can read on the label, what junk is in the food, and the more educated folks regarding nutrition aren't buying as much of the junk as they used to.  Same thing probably will happen with Pet Foods as the word spreads.

Look at this web page where Purina is talking about all of the poor ingredients they have crossed out of their premium Pro Plan Select Dog Food, to make it a good food to feed your pet.  If those ingredients are so bad, why are they still loading up their cheaper foods with them?  [linkhttp://www.proplan.com/proplanselects/default.aspx?DCMP=ILC-PP-HP&HQS=SmPromo]http://www.proplan.com/proplanselects/default.aspx?DCMP=ILC-PP-HP&HQS=SmPromo[/link]