what they're teaching...

I would never consider a wolf/dog and omnivore. They are carnivores. Because an animal eats a limited amount of something doesn't throw it in a specifc category any more than its dentition. Compare and contrast the diets of Grey Wolves and Brown Bears and you'll see what I mean.
 

Brown bears are omnivorous, eating almost anything nutritious. Their diet changes with seasonal availability of different food sources. They eat a wide variety of plant foods, including grasses, sedges, roots, moss, and bulbs. Fruits, nuts, berries, bulbs, and tubers are taken extensively during summer and early autumn. They consume insects, fungi, and roots at all times of the year and also dig mice, ground squirrels, marmots, and other fossorial animals out of their burrows. Moth larvae have been demonstrated to be especially important sources of protein and fat when brown bears are putting on fat in the fall. In the Canadian Rockies and other areas, grizzly bears (the subspecies of brown bear in that area) are quite carnivorous, hunting moose, elk, mountain sheep, and mountain goats. Occasionally black bears are preyed upon. In Alaska, brown bears have been observed to eat carrion and occasionally capture young calves of caribou and moose. Brown bears have also been observed to feed on vulnerable populations of breeding salmon in the summer in these areas. ([linkhttp://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Ursus_arctos.html#bb72d74a438ac237674e0265c2cc2b95]Wilson and Ruff, 1999[/link]) 

 

Gray wolves are carnivores. They hunt prey on their own, in packs, steal the prey of other predators, or scavenge carrion. Prey is located by chance or scent. Animals included in the diet of gray wolves varies geographically and depends on prey availability. Wolves primarily hunt in packs for large prey such as moose, elk, bison, musk oxen, and reindeer. Once these large ungulates are taken down, the wolves attack their rump, flank, and shoulder areas. Wolves control prey populations by hunting the weak, old, and immature. A wolf can consume up to 9 kg of meat at one meal. Wolves usually utilize the entire carcass, including some hair and bones. Smaller prey such as beavers, rabbits, and other small mammals are usually hunted by lone wolves, and they are a substantial part of their diet. Wolves may also eat livestock and garbage when it is available.  

 
Both Sources were taken from this site [linkhttp://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/classification/Carnivora.html#Carnivora]http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/classification/Carnivora.html#Carnivora[/link]
 
 
Considering that grey wolves (Canis lupus) and domesticated dogs (Canis lupus familiaris) are taxonomically and genetically the same specie, I would lean more towards the natural diet of wolves being the most appropriate for the majority of domesticated dogs. Especially those breeds which are more primitive (such as siberians, malamutes and other northern breeds, considering they were domesticated and developed in regions with short growing seasons). Just because man has selectively bred (dogs did not evolve into the variations we see today) does not mean that dogs 'evolved' an omnivorous diet either.
 
As for the stomach content debate, either side seems to lack any good sources to go on. One says they eat the stomach contents, one says they don't. If my memory serves me well enough, David L. Mech was one of the sources that claimed wolves only ate the stomach lining and not the contents of the stomach of the downed animal.
 
Ron, do you have the web address for the 26 genetic differences in dogs and wolves? I'd like to read it .
 
 
 
 

I do agree that dogs are taxonomically classified as carnivores, but their eating habits AND anatomy are that of an omnivore. It's not just that they eat a limited amount of something, it's not just the structure of the teeth, it's not just the GIT, it's the whole package! Dogs eat other things because they NEED it. They would not eat it if it didn't serve a purpose of some kind. They can't think like we do and "decide" they like something just because it tastes good, it has to fill a specific dietary need. Dogs have limited reasoning capabilities, so the theory that dogs eat something just because they like it seems a bit far fetched and not based on science. When you ask your vet why my dog eats grass, he may say "because he likes it", but I think this is a cop out on the part of the vet. Since most vets don't take advantage of further training in the area of nutrition, they don't have a clear answer for you, so they tell you because they like it! I have learned through my nutrition classes, that dogs (and cats for that matter) eat grass to meet specific dietary needs. Cats eat it for the fiber (helps control hairballs) and the moisture (water content). Dogs eat it for the fiber and possibly to help with stomach upset. You will notice they are specific in the types of grasses they will eat. WHY??? It is filling a need. Grass also helps with digestion in the large intestine.
 
You can't compare the diets of two totally different species, even if they are both omnivores. They have very different dietary needs.
Actually, recent studies have shown that dogs are more closely related to coyotes than wolves and further consideration is ongoing in the classification of domestic dogs. Ron, I am sure that you have found quite a bit of this research and probably could provide some links... [].  I have lost ALL my previous info to a computer CRASH!  

I would consider my above post a contrast, not a comparison of bears and wolves... simply pointing out the kind of diet an omnivore has and the kind that a carnivore has. Could you provide me with specific sources on how the digestive system of a dog points to an omnivorous diet (i.e. how it varies from a wolf)? The research I did a while back indicated that their digestive system is identical to a wolf... further, most of my research indicate grey wolves and dogs are more closely related than dogs and coyotes, so some sources on that would be appreciated too.
 
I would think their eating "habits" would be moot. Canis lupus familiaris is not found in the "wild" where a developed eating habit could be observed per the animals evolution. Humans affect everthing in their diet; whether the animal is feral or not.
 
As for the "like" and "dislike," it wasn't a point in my post, however, I will touch on it. I do believe animals can and do eat things because they taste good. However, it would seem that they "prefer" things that they were evolved to eat.
 
On a lighter note
 

They would not eat it if it didn't serve a purpose of some kind.

 
I wish Maddi had this philosophy... maybe she wouldn't eat tissues and plastic []. But, then again, maybe the purpose is beyond me, lol.

[linkhttp://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/51692.html]www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/51692.html[/link]
 
"Wolves : Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation"
Edited by David L. Mech and Luigi Boitani
 
The gray wolf eats animals, scavenges and can even eat berries and fruits.
 
Aside from that with other studies of wild canids, such as the coyote (canis lupus latrans) do scavenge and have been observed eating plant matter and it shows up in their scat, which is how they are tracked.
 
More than once, kennelkeeper has posted from scientific texts, not written by board members of Iams, about the GIT of the dog. She also has extensive hands-on experience with a variety of wild animals, including wolves. Certainly more than most of us have every seen (envy, envy).
 
Patience, as it will take a few more minutes to dig up references on the genetic differences between canis lupus familiaris and canis lupus. Summarily, canids descended from the gray wolf do eat plant matter but I'll see if I can re-locate those references.
 

As I recall, dingos also eat small amounts of plant matter.

I would have replied last night, but my wife was cooking my birthday dinner a few nights early.
 
[linkhttp://www.txtwriter.com/Onscience/Articles/familydog.html]www.txtwriter.com/Onscience/Articles/familydog.html[/link]
 
Wayne's team found 26 different sequences in the control region (of mtDNA).
 
As in Robert K. Wayne of UCLA. It is his work on canid genetics that led to the species nomenlature change and he is the one who says that, regardless of look, your dog is a gray wolf. That canis lupus familiaris is closely descended from the Gray Wolf. That all other canids are descended from the wolf, even the dingo, canis lupus dingus. I don't know if he's done genetic research on the NGSD to determine if it's canis lupus something and kennelkeeper probably knows.
 
The family dog is a domesticated descendant of the gray wolf.  Differences in the control region (mtDNA) can have an affect. For example, mtDNA comes from the mother. If you have a wolf female mate with a dog, the off-spring will be wolf with wolf-dog appearance. So, let's accept Wayne's proposal that our dog is essentially a wolf even though there is a 1% to 4% difference, with at least part of the 1% being 26 different sequences in mtDNA. Since Mech's name was mentioned for saying, at one point, that wolves do not eat stomach contents and that they are primarily carnivores, recall what I quoted from Mech's own words in the same book, that wolves will also eat plant matter, foraging. So, our dogs, descended from wolves that eat plant matter and have been observed by people other than Mech to eat stomach contents, aren't supposed to do the same because their teeth don't look like an herbivore's? I'll tell that to my dog next time he's eating grass or a wheat cracker.
 
As for old breeds, such as the Siberian Husky, a breed of 1,000 years. For 1,000 years, the chukchi bred the chukchi dog, which became known as the Siberian Husky. These dogs lived closely with the family, including children, being fed what every was given to them when there was enough of it. The diet was fish, seal, reindeer, and rice. There's not much accessible crops in Northern Siberia, but they traded with other parts of Asia. Secondly, most food was cooked. The average temp in wintertime is around -70 F, with some days as low as -96 F. You have to cook. At -70 F, meat isn't just cold, it's frozen solid.
 
Archeological evidence shows that dog has been with man for 100,000 years, eating human food waste or whatever was offered. They got nutrition from it well enough to survive as a species and lend themselves to domestication.
 
IMHO, dogs are omnivores with a strong carnivorous tendency, regardless of their teeth or lack of lateral mastication.
 
As for someone here with direct experience caring for wild animals, including wolves, kennelkeeper has done such. There are other links to field studies of coyote eating habits by tracking their scat, which is as good an indicator of the amount of plant matter in the diet as blood work and it is easier to collect.
 

ORIGINAL: kennel_keeper

I do agree that dogs are taxonomically classified as carnivores, but their eating habits AND anatomy are that of an omnivore. It's not just that they eat a limited amount of something, it's not just the structure of the teeth, it's not just the GIT, it's the whole package! Dogs eat other things because they NEED it. They would not eat it if it didn't serve a purpose of some kind. They can't think like we do and "decide" they like something just because it tastes good, it has to fill a specific dietary need. Dogs have limited reasoning capabilities, so the theory that dogs eat something just because they like it seems a bit far fetched and not based on science.
 
 then why do dogs beg for things they dont need like chocolate and other foods?  because it tastes good thats why.

I was wondering. Was there a thought you had regarding what you quoted from kennelkeepr or were you just quoting it for reiteration?
 

i quoted kennelkeepr because he said a dog will only eat something it needs, that they cant decide they like something just because it tastes good......    i disagree with that completely which is why i gave the begging for chocolate example.....dogs eat stuff they dont need ALL the time simply for the taste of it.....

I apologize. I misinterpreted the posting style. It was all in the same box and I didn't realize the last statement was yours. I was confused for a bit. I do agree that dogs will go for what they think tastes good. I think it is probably more accurate to say that they are opportunistic scavengers. Not all they may eat roaming the streets may do them a lot of good, but their systems do have some flexibility. Also, as an aside, kennelkeeper is a woman. As for tastebuds, dogs don't have the same bitter buds that humans do. That's why they can eat things that don't taste appetizing to us. They don't taste the bitter. They do taste sweet stuff, though. That's why cholocate is a danger. Not only is it toxic, they like the taste, which could lead to them ingesting a toxic level.
 
Also, I think kennelkeeper was trying to say that dogs don't actively seek variety like humans do. For one, they don't some of the nutrients we do. That is, they don't specifically need a variety. But they do need certain nutrients. Humans cannot synthesize vitamin C. So, we have to have it in our diet or we will get scurvy. Dogs produce vitamin C in their liver and don't need it as a supplement. OTOH, humans exposed to sunlight synthesize vitamin D.
 
Also, I think she meant to say that dogs don't eat whatever variety they do eat for the sake of variety, like humans do. They eat to survive. If it doesn't taste too sweet and smells like meat, it must be food.
 
I know some will task me for saying that dogs need variety. If that were so, are wolves deprived in the wild if all they have to hunt is elk, in a particular region? I say that because many feel that a dog should be fed as close to a wolf feeds as possible. Some dogs do well with variety, others don't. The one time I can think of variety being a problem is if the dog is having a food allergy, it might be difficult to pinpoint which ingredient is causing the reaction.
 

i bet if you put 2 bowls side by side, one filled with healthy dog food and the other filled with assorted tasty, unhealthy stuff, the dog would go for the 2nd bowl hehe.

Nou doubt, Jaye.
 
Coyotes will scavenge the carcass left by wolves and then bury it and let it get rancid and then go back and eat it. Dogs will eat food scraps left on the street and be okay. My dog did that on a walk. He picked up what looked like a piece of ham that fell out of someone's trash and before I could do anything, he scarfed it down. He didn't have any problem from it, though that is not what I choose to feed him.
 
As more than one nutrition source has pointed out, it doesn't matter how wonderful and balanced you think the food is, if the dog is not interested in eating it, it's not doing them a bit of good. I can leave a carrot on the floor and so will my dog. But he will eat a wheat cracker. He'll eat my cajun mashed sweet potatos. He once ate a celery stick that had been cooked inside a turkey breast. He will eat grass and pecans.
 
IMHO, dogs will go for what most smells like meat and then for whatever plant matter suits them.