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Does feeding choice affect blood values?

Posted : 1/25/2007 9:37:51 PM

I'm not sure WHERE to post this, but I'm confused, and it IS nutrition related.

Last year, Emma got Really Sick. She turned yellow, had some diahrrea, threw up a lot, and had a 20 minute seizure. At the time, she was on strictly homecooked, grain free food. Her blood values were "perfect". Textbook perfect. No vet could figure out what was wrong. Her acupuncturist started her on Denosyl, and she eventually recovered on her own.

Emma's buddy, Spar, is Really Sick, right now. Spar is on a raw diet. He's a 10 year old Boxer. Sunday night, he had bloody diahrrea, and it hasn't stopped. He is finally holding down food. He is, interestingly, covered in hives. His whole body was swollen on Tuesday. He's had major liver issues in the past, similar to Emma's (congenital stuff). His bloodwork? Textbook perfect.

What I'm wondering is.... is there a different set of numbers, somewhere, for dogs who are NOT on a conventional diet? Would that affect the bloodwork? Does that have anything to do with it? I'm about to email Dr. Dodds. Spar's blood will probably be shipped off to her, next week, if he's still sick. He's looking a lot better, but still.... it's BAD. He is NOT a young dog, and this could be serious. There's major concern. The bloodwork shows nothing.

M.W.Lewis

Posted : 1/25/2007 10:27:09 PM

Maybe these links will help (?)

look under the raw food study section for values-
[linkhttp://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=5180674398531&lang=en-US&mkt=en-US&FORM=CVRE2]http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=5180674398531&lang=en-US&mkt=en-US&FORM=CVRE2[/link]

[linkhttp://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=5181530573895&lang=en-US&mkt=en-US&FORM=CVRE]http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=5181530573895&lang=en-US&mkt=en-US&FORM=CVRE[/link]

Misskiwi67

Posted : 1/25/2007 11:33:09 PM

BUN and Creatinine will be elevated...

shorthair

Posted : 1/26/2007 8:16:09 AM

Raw diet doesn't always mean elevate levels of BUN and creatinine.Mattie had a blood test several months ago and they both were perfectly normal.

mudpuppy

Posted : 1/26/2007 10:05:30 AM

bloodwork and diet have little to do with each other. Your dog's body works hard to maintain constant levels of enzymes and nutrients in the blood. For example, you can feed your dog a diet without any calcium and the blood calcium level won't drop at all because the dog's body will strip calcium out of the bones to maintain the level in the blood. Your dog has to be chronically very malnourished for diet to be reflected in the bloodwork.

jennie_c_d

Posted : 1/26/2007 10:07:42 AM

So, their bloodwork being normal means that they're healthy? Even though Emma was showing signs of liver failure?

ottoluv

Posted : 1/26/2007 10:45:51 AM

So, their bloodwork being normal means that they're healthy? Even though Emma was showing signs of liver failure?

Just because bloodworkis normal unfortunatlely does not always meen everything is perfect. You mentioned signs of liver failure, what exactly were you refering to? Did you mean labs or physical signs? Sometimes with early liver faiure, you will not have elevations in liver enzymes but will have abnormalities in INR/PT/albumin/platlets. If none of these labs are abnormal, then the liver is functioning as they are markers of the synthetic function of the liver.

Sometimes it is darn hard, I've had people with stone cold normal labs, but one exam they obviously had peritonitis. You take them to the OR and find a perf'd viscous. Most people would be near death, but some don't show the signs. Now whether or not this has anything to do with nutritional status is not really known. I'm sure it plays a part, but I bet genetics does as well.

Sorry Jennie, I know how frustrating this can be, sometimes it's so much easier if you get a black and white answer from the labwork.

jennie_c_d

Posted : 1/26/2007 11:01:47 AM

Just because bloodworkis normal unfortunatlely does not always meen everything is perfect. You mentioned signs of liver failure, what exactly were you refering to? Did you mean labs or physical signs?

Emma was yellow, swollen, had diahrrea and vomiting, and smelled SICK. She's got a history of liver shunts. She did recover, but it looked like liver failure to the vet and to me.

It is VERY frustrating to have perfect bloodwork when a dog is so obviously ill. Spar's poor mom is going crazy....

mudpuppy

Posted : 1/26/2007 11:31:00 AM

no, normal bloodwork doesn't mean they are healthy. Abnormal bloodwork usually means they are unhealthy, but the converse isn't true.

papillon806

Posted : 1/26/2007 12:27:02 PM

What kind of vitamin supplements are you using? I have seen dogs on homecooked and/or raw that had horrible liver and GI reactions to the excess of vitamins they were consuming (mainly because they are getting a certain amount of vitamins in the actual food itself, and then given the RDI amount in additional supplements). I have also seen it when the animal was just given homecooked or raw and wasn't given any supplements (in addition, some dogs have reactions to the excess iron and dyes used in human grade supplements)....if that was the case, bloodwork should not be effected.

jennie_c_d

Posted : 1/26/2007 12:34:09 PM

What kind of vitamin supplements are you using?

I supplement conservatively, and try to get everything in the form of food. Emma is fine, now. That was almost a year ago.

Spar gets Nupro Joint Support, apple cider vinegar, and things like that. His mom also tries to do it mostly with food.

Neither dog should be getting too much, or too little. I don't know Spar's diet that well, though. I use human grade vitamins, but never human multivitamins. My dogs are too small for that

I use individual vitamins, or blends of two or three things (like Carlson's ACES).

jessies_mom

Posted : 1/26/2007 12:47:44 PM

Could Spar have a food allergy; hives are usually an allergic reaction to something, and diarrhea can be a symptom of food allergies.

jennie_c_d

Posted : 1/26/2007 12:54:34 PM

He does have severe food allergies, which is why he originally switched to raw. He ate something in the yard on Sunday, but nobody knows what it was, and his mom wasn't told about it til AFTER he got sick (so she couldn't induce vomiting or give charcoal). His bloodwork isn't showing anything weird, though, and I would think that if an allergy were THAT bad, it'd show up? My doctor has told me how bad my allergies were (or how GOOD) based on bloodwork, but I don't know what the test was or what was run on Spar. What's really confusing about Spar, though, is that he's lost SO much blood, and his numbers are still great.

sandra_slayton

Posted : 1/26/2007 1:03:46 PM

I was told that even a few bites of cat food could change at least one thing in the blood work. Buck's kidney infection was found thru his full blood panel during "old man physical" the end of May. Urinalysis confirmed it was a kidney infection. He had never had one before.

jessies_mom

Posted : 1/26/2007 1:31:37 PM

He does have severe food allergies, which is why he originally switched to raw. He ate something in the yard on Sunday, but nobody knows what it was, and his mom wasn't told about it til AFTER he got sick (so she couldn't induce vomiting or give charcoal). His bloodwork isn't showing anything weird, though, and I would think that if an allergy were THAT bad, it'd show up? My doctor has told me how bad my allergies were (or how GOOD) based on bloodwork

I don't think it would show on the blood work unless the blood was tested specifically for allergic reactions to substances, like when Jessie had the blood test for environmental allergies. Blood to be tested for allergies is sent to labs specializing in that type of testing, such as Heska and BMS; they measure levels of serum IgE. I'll pray for Spar; hope he recovers soon.