Who regulates TO??

I do know I enjoy the comments people make about Jessie's coat since I switched from Nutro to Eagle Pack,

 
Oh I know,,, I am always shocked when I see the shine on Ollies coat...he is beautiful!  Bubblegum being black and white, you can't appreciate her pretty coat as well.    And believe me,,,I HOPE our Danes live to a ripe old age.  I do everything I can to help them along!!

I think the make-up of the dog's health has a great deal to do with genetics as well which should not be overlooked.  I'm sure we all know of some neighbor down the road who had a dog tied out to a 6' chain and a doghouse that lived to be 14yrs old with no heartworm preventative and the cheapest food on the market.  Who knows why it happens.  Obviously the dog would not necessarily thrive, but there is something to be said about surviving like that when we would never suspect it to even be possible.  We can look at human health the same way. 

I really avoid using the coat as the most reliable indicator of health.  I think it's very possible for a dog to have a gleaming coat and have internal issues that may never show themselves on the outside.  I remember years ago a fellow dog person was in the park and noticed a very shiny coat on a black lab.  The guy asked the owner what he was feeding and sure enough it was something like Dog Chow.  The owner was pleased to get the compliment on the coat, but the kicker was that in the sun you could see all the lumps and bumps from obvious fatty tumors. 

Which also brings up another thought about other dogs doing well on what we would consider poor nutrition.  Are the owners really aware of the total health of the dog?  Do they take it for granted that dogs just get fatty tumors?  Do they have blood work done at all throughout the dog's life?  Although I would never assume that every owner is lying, but more that I feel they might not always be as observant as more conscientious owners are and therefore the picture painted may be skewed a bit.

I really avoid using the coat as the most reliable indicator of health.  I think it's very possible for a dog to have a gleaming coat and have internal issues that may never show themselves on the outside. 

 
While I'm sure you are right to some degree,, Ollie went thru a very bad period of his life, after getting his vaccinations and getting sick,,,what the vet called a stomach virus. Then his black fur turned almost reddish/brown and lost any shine it might have had.  THAT was a sign of an unhealthy dog. He then developed skin problems and scratched his life away. After being on antibiotics and sometimes prednisone for a period, we decided to go another way,,changing his diet, adding supplements and he did get on allergy shots. He now is very healthy and shiny beautiful!  And NO he does not get vaccinations anymore either...    I think if you would have seen Ollie then and now, you would certainly be talking about the shine on his coat also!

Having golden retrievers, I am on several golden boards and it is amazing how many are treated for fatty tumors and are on the best food, and sometimes raw, money can buy.  I think myabe goldens are prone to fatty tumors--i know they are to cancer, as are flat coated retrievers and certain other breeds. Goldens are also prone to tyroid problems and it doesn't matter a hoot what kind of food you feed them--it is genetic.  They got to popular to fast and to much inbreeding.  
 
That tends to be a big problem when a movie comes out about a dog--eeryone wants one , be it dalmatian, golden, lab, whatever..  Then everyone is breeding them, not paying attention to health, eetc. And you end up with a zillion pups with different health problems.  Many of them have pups and it is passed on  So sad.
 
Buck is due full blood workup in about a month.  His last was perfect, including thyroid, which he had been on meds for 6 months.  KayCee is due her's later this summer.  She was also great last time.  We have never had the full run on Honey, but the shorter version has always come out great..

I think if you would have seen Ollie then and now, you would certainly be talking about the shine on his coat also!

I'm definately not saying it can't be an indicator, just that it shouldn't always be the only indicator.

I'm definately not saying it can't be an indicator, just that it shouldn't always be the only indicator.

Yes, I'm sure your right!

Mr. Ear's was an absolutely stunning pup and his coat was gorgeous.  He died at 5 months, suddenly and without warning.  So coat isn't always a great indicator, I agree.

sandra,  A friend of mine recently lost an 8 year old Golden to cancer. I agree that popularity can be a curse for a breed, and it's so sad.
   Welcome to i-dog gr8pyrz, They are beautiful dogs. [] I agree that coat shine isn't always an indicator of good health, but if a dog's coat was dull, and it didn't have a parasitic infection or other problems, I would definitely consider a change in food.  I always thought Labs and Goldens were prone to fatty tumors, although if they're not overweight, that may help to prevent them. I don't own a Lab, but I'm curious: are you saying that fatty tumors are not normal and there is a way to avoid them?

If there is a way to avoid them, nobody on my golden boards, including breeders and vet techs know  the trick.   Seems like every week one dog or another is having a fatty tumor removed.  My first irish Setter had one come up on his hip and because it was in the same place he had a gash when he showed up at my house, my vet removed and had a biopsy done on it--benign, just a fatty tumor. And certainly, feeding one type of food or another does not prevent them.  The dogs on those boards eat everything from raw, homecooked only, high cost food and cheaper food and that has made no difference as to tumors or cancer, thyroid or bad hips.

ORIGINAL: ron2

Example, I don't recall if the Innova bag carries an AAFCO statement. I do know that you will not find such a statement with the product descriptions at the website, such as Innova Large Adult Dry. On other pages within the site, they, almost begrudgingly, admit to using AAFCO protocols at their plant and testing facility.


One should never be castigated for asking questions or raising concerns.

  Ron, I appreciate your input!
FYI - I just looked at my Innova "small bites" bag and it does have the AAFCO statement.  Of course this is the small bites and maybe your right about the others.

First, Purina, Peidgree, etc, all say they are 100% balanced with everything a dog is suppose to have.

I totally agree. They are 100% balanced, with all the nutrients dogs need.... BUT they're not bioavailable, meaning that dogs do not have the capacity to get the nutrients out of the kibble and into their bodies. This leads to deficiencies.

I also agree that you don't know who's telling the truth. Any dog food company can mess up. Accidents happen. That's why I quit using dog food, all together. Emma has SEVERE allergies, and she could DIE from a slight variation of ingredients. I make all of her food, and put all of the supplements in her bowl. I know exactly what she's getting, and that the company didn't switch from fish oil to chicken fat (they have three months to change the label! Three months is a LONG time!!!) or add kelp to their formula, or whatever.....

 I always thought Labs and Goldens were prone to fatty tumors, although if they're not overweight, that may help to prevent them. I don't own a Lab, but I'm curious: are you saying that fatty tumors are not normal and there is a way to avoid them?

 
Well as we all know, nothing in health or nutrition whether it be human or animal is black and white.....but do I personally believe nutrition contributes to fatty tumors?  yes I think so in a lot of cases.  And again, we are talking about JQP.  The discussion of genetics aside at this point.  My example was highlighting the outside indicator of health but also the automatic expectation that fatty tumors are normal.  I do believe that most of the public believes they are in fact part of the normal aging process in dogs (no matter the breed).  That goes hand in hand with a majority of people using the most available dog food.  Therefore we will probably never know how many thousands of dogs may have survived without them. 
 
Also my example is extreme.  We're not just talking about a lump or 2.  We're talking about a silhouttte in the sun that showed a very bumpy dog. 
 
If we're talking about a more enclosed community of one breed, always purebred, with genetics as a large factor then I think you are able to eliminate diet as an indicator and focus strictly on genetics.  If a responsible breeder ended up with a litter where 5 of the 6 pups grew to the age of 10 and became engulfed in fatty tumors, he/she would look at diet but genetics would be questioned and discussed (at least I would hope) far more at that point. 
 
I would compare it to high cholesterol in humans.  Sometimes can be diet driven and sometimes can be genetic.  Once diet is eliminated genetics are the forefront and usually in those cases the people have to be on cholesterol lowering drugs.  Even if they stay on a low-cholesterol diet. 
 
I definately agree that both can contribute by far.  Just that we will never know about the majority of the population since diet is not necessarily considered.
 
 

And Sandra, my cat,  a North American Short-Hair Tabby, lived to be almost 17, eating Purina. Most of her life was on DeliCat and the last year was on Purina NF. 17 years is a long time for her breed, or any pet, on what some have considered is ground up garbage. If the proof is in the pudding, then Purina at the time was making good cat food, regardless of what someone may think of their ingredient list.

[:-]

ORIGINAL: ron2

And Sandra, my cat,  a North American Short-Hair Tabby, lived to be almost 17, eating Purina. Most of her life was on DeliCat and the last year was on Purina NF. 17 years is a long time for her breed, or any pet, on what some have considered is ground up garbage. If the proof is in the pudding, then Purina at the time was making good cat food, regardless of what someone may think of their ingredient list.

I think that many dog food companies which we consider "junk" made a good food once....but I think most have changed their ingredients drastically with time, as research has proved more cost-effective nutrition loop-holes.

But I know what you mean...my parent's dog (a long time ago) got whatever dog food was on sale that week, and he lived to be 20! (He was a collie/chow mix)