Who regulates TO??

Some mushers keep their teams in kennels during sleep. They are let out for exercise and play and care. Sometimes, they are fed out of the kennel, sometimes in. That is their life.
 

All things considered, there really isn't a better kibble than TWO. Compare ingredients to any super premium food and TWO comes out on top. I recently started my dog on the TWO Bison formula and must say this is the only kibble that my dog would eat by itself. I prefer using a combo of raw frozen, quality canned, i.e. Evanger's,  and home cooked with the TWO fed for the crunch factor...not ready for RMB's yet. If you buy from Pet Food Direct, you never have to go through the company, if you think they are unresponsive. Pet Food Direct is great...very fast delivery with no problems. The food comes fresh and well packaged.

ORIGINAL: jamcony

Compare ingredients to any super premium food and TWO comes out on top.

If you buy from Pet Food Direct, you never have to go through the company, if you think they are unresponsive.

Okay, but my problem (one of them anyway) with them is - no matter who you buy from, you can't know that the ingredients listed on the bag or website are actually are what you are getting. There are too many discrepancies, and since the company does not announce formula changes, answer questions, or update their packaging - how could you know?

Now these aren't huge discrepancies, at least not that I've noticed, but they are there and they are - to me at least - indicative of a company that is not exactly reputable and is cutting corners by using up their old packaging. What else do they cut corners on? Not having a customer service center for one. There are too many other great products out there with people who do stand behind them. IMHO a company that cannot/will not respond to their customer's inquiries isn't worth doing business with.

*end rant*

Okay, but my problem (one of them anyway) with them is - no matter who you buy from, you can't know that the ingredients listed on the bag or website are actually are what you are getting. There are too many discrepancies, and since the company does not announce formula changes, answer questions, or update their packaging - how could you know?

That always made me a little weary too.  But I forgot to update this, but a few weeks before I switched to RC, my pup's stool had been getting softer and softer (not to the point of diarrhea, but not as firm as they should be) and he would do the whole walk after he pooped like he had to go more but wouldn't (does that make sense? lol).  Anyways, since he has been eating a new food, his stools are much more firm and he doesn't do the whole walking/straining thing anymore....I wonder if it was the TO that was doing that to him, because when I first switched to TO, all was well (good stools, etc), it just seemed to get progressively worse....has anybody had similar situations? I know ever dogs reacts differently....I suppose I will see if he completely stops after being switched for awhile, but we shall see!

ORIGINAL: jamcony  All things considered, there really isn't a better kibble than TWO. Compare ingredients to any super premium food and TWO comes out on top.

 
 
Hmmm…comes out on top.  What does that mean comes out on top?  Is there some measuring indicator of this profound wisdom?  How about the energy output of the food, could that be an indicator?  I guess sometimes we can#%92t even count on an honest measurement in that department either, but we need to start somewhere with a comparison.  Is there some skewed numbers out there in regards to cals?  For example, what should be considered more beneficial in regards to a canine#%92s health, protein derived from chicken or from cottage cheese?  Each play a role in sure in the numbers, yet is it possible for 350 cals of one feed to be far superior to 350 cals of another brand.  I think that is a very strong possibility, which really makes my thoughts a moot point, but here goes…
 
Compare Canidae to TWO.  Canidae All Life Stages Chicken and Rice checks in at 4178 ME KCAL/KG.  TWO checks in at 3680.  Canidae feeding tables would indicate a 50 lb. dog needing up to 2 cups.  TWO tables indicate up to 2¾ cup for a 50 lb dog.  So, which is the better feed?  Does TWO really come out on top off all kibbles in it#%92s class…hardly.
I#%92m sure it#%92s a nice feed and dogs may do well, but I think TWO falls in line with the rest of the kibbles in that class or category but thinking it is superior to any kibble in its class highly debatable.   I don#%92t feed Canidae, but I just picked one out for comparison sake.
 
See Ya,
CC

Going solely on ingredients,i would have to agree that TO comes out on top of all the others also []

And I third that statement. Going on ingredients, quality of ingredients, etc. Way better than Canidae (which happens to be the first decent food I ever fed).
 
Asthefurflies, thank you for your answer. I don't care if a company has actually done feeding tests. They don't mean anything to me. Honestly, if I owned a dog food company, I would test the food on my own dogs. They should formulate it to the exact standards it should be and then test it. Like if you were trying out dog foods, you wouldn't start out with the crappiest one just to see if it won't kill your dog, you'd start out with the best one you could find! At least that's what I'd do. They aren't going to make a dog food that's completely unbalanced because when dogs start dropping dead or having huge problems, they will pay in the end.
 
If I remember correctly, TO doesn't advertise and relies on a good product and word of mouth for sales. Well, they don't NEED feeding trials. When have you heard of a dog with lots of problems on TO - other than the occasional poster with runny stools (their dog, that is).
 
Okay, so their customer service sucks. Their food is outstanding in so many different ways. I'm not feeding customer service to my dog, I'm feeding the food.

ORIGINAL: k_dawg

Okay, so their customer service sucks. Their food is outstanding in so many different ways. I'm not feeding customer service to my dog, I'm feeding the food.

Well, this thread is a year old, but okay. [:-] To me, the company's ethics and practices are VERY important when I'm deciding whether I trust them with my dog's health.

Here's an excerpt from the thread below:

http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=300145

-Not all their billing problems were from people trying to take advantage of a situation. They tried to collect from me when I had e-mailed them multiple times about the shipping issue and had been told they would send a return tag. They eventually found the e-mail to me from their rep, who was of course no longer there. This was after they called multiple times to collect (months after the food had shipped).
-Luvntzus post about generic silver bags is like deja vu - on 3/14/06 a TO distributor posted that they sent her 16 plain, silver bags that she couldn't resell. And even though they said they would refund her, they never did.
-I've yet to see a question about the composition or production of their product that they will answer. People are trying to get sodium and iodine levels from them and they either give no response at all, or an non-answer answer. These are people with health concerns about their pets. Not to mention the whole Menu thing.
-The turnover is unreal.
-Rancid food.
-Testing? out different kibbles on the public.
-Using bags for well over a year that had incorrect ingredient lists.

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus

ORIGINAL: k_dawg

Okay, so their customer service sucks. Their food is outstanding in so many different ways. I'm not feeding customer service to my dog, I'm feeding the food.

Well, this thread is a year old, but okay. [:-] To me, the company's ethics and practices are VERY important when I'm deciding whether I trust them with my dog's health.

Here's an excerpt from the thread below:

[linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=300145]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=300145[/link]

-Not all their billing problems were from people trying to take advantage of a situation. They tried to collect from me when I had e-mailed them multiple times about the shipping issue and had been told they would send a return tag. They eventually found the e-mail to me from their rep, who was of course no longer there. This was after they called multiple times to collect (months after the food had shipped).
-Luvntzus post about generic silver bags is like deja vu - on 3/14/06 a TO distributor posted that they sent her 16 plain, silver bags that she couldn't resell. And even though they said they would refund her, they never did.
-I've yet to see a question about the composition or production of their product that they will answer. People are trying to get sodium and iodine levels from them and they either give no response at all, or an non-answer answer. These are people with health concerns about their pets. Not to mention the whole Menu thing.
-The turnover is unreal.
-Rancid food.
-Testing? out different kibbles on the public.
-Using bags for well over a year that had incorrect ingredient lists.

It's things like these that makes me wonder if the ingredient list on their bags is exactly what they claim it to be.  Some of their formulas (like W&N), I find very odd how they can get a 6% ash level from the types of ingredients they use.  Theew is such an ingredient as low-ash fish meal, and while you can find a chicken meal that is "low in ash," it can only be so low....  JMO's though.

It's things like these that makes me wonder if the ingredient list on their bags is exactly what they claim it to be. Some of their formulas (like W&N), I find very how they can get a 6% ash level from the types of ingredients they use.

   Maybe there's nothing to this, but the fact that they apparently can't calculate the amount of calories in a cup of their food gives me doubts about their ablilty to accurately balance nutrients in their formulas; [linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=211083&mpage=1&key=heyward%2Ccup𳣡]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=211083&mpage=1&key=heyward%2Ccup𳣡[/link]


" Timberwolf has done some strange things, but [linkhttp://www.ourdogsonline.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/62516/page/21/fpart/1]this[/link] has to be one of the strangest [8|]

Mordanna 09/26/06

[blockquote]quote:

Yesterday I received an email to my dogfoodproject.com inbox from someone who asked me about the kcal content per cup of TWO foods, stating that several inquiries to TWO on the topic were unsucessful, and that finally the person was directed to my website to ask me.

Of course I wanted to find out what this is all about and asked the person who emailed me what exactly was going on. The answer was that customer service directed them to me, claiming they were instructed to do that to anyone inquiring about this topic, that I was more accurate at giving the correct amount than they were, and it was difficult for them to calculate it, and that I was doing this for many other companies also. This reader also said Mark Heyward (the owner of TWO) gave them a hard time about this question.

I just don't get it. This is the second time recently that a reply from TWO customer service really gave me a "WTF" moment..."[/blockquote]

ORIGINAL: jessies_mom

It's things like these that makes me wonder if the ingredient list on their bags is exactly what they claim it to be. Some of their formulas (like W&N), I find very how they can get a 6% ash level from the types of ingredients they use.

  Maybe there's nothing to this, but the fact that they apparently can't calculate the amount of calories in a cup of their food gives me doubts about their ablilty to accurately balance nutrients in their formulas; [linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=211083&mpage=1&key=heyward%2Ccup𳣡]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=211083&mpage=1&key=heyward%2Ccup𳣡[/link]


" Timberwolf has done some strange things, but [linkhttp://www.ourdogsonline.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/62516/page/21/fpart/1]this[/link] has to be one of the strangest [8|]

Mordanna 09/26/06

[blockquote]quote:

Yesterday I received an email to my dogfoodproject.com inbox from someone who asked me about the kcal content per cup of TWO foods, stating that several inquiries to TWO on the topic were unsucessful, and that finally the person was directed to my website to ask me.

Of course I wanted to find out what this is all about and asked the person who emailed me what exactly was going on. The answer was that customer service directed them to me, claiming they were instructed to do that to anyone inquiring about this topic, that I was more accurate at giving the correct amount than they were, and it was difficult for them to calculate it, and that I was doing this for many other companies also. This reader also said Mark Heyward (the owner of TWO) gave them a hard time about this question.

I just don't get it. This is the second time recently that a reply from TWO customer service really gave me a "WTF" moment..."[/blockquote]

Wow. [] Just wow. One of the many reasons that I don't trust TWO further than I can throw them.

Oh! I almost forgot!

I called them because I wanted to know who comes up w/ their formulations.  I didn't want to know names, just "a nutritionist" or "a veterinarian" or something.  The first time I called, they HUNG UP on me after I asked.  The second time, they left me on hold for about 10 minutes....I wasn't going to wait any longer.  And I suppose you can imagine what happened when I emailed them..... lol

Ok, so if they can't calculate Kcal/cup, how in the world can they calculate all the appropriate levels of vitamins, minerals, trace elements, etc?

Wow I know internet forums can get out of control but I was reading along page by page and then on page 9 its stated that this thread is a year old!!!!!!!!
I just love when people just can't let go.   *content removed for personal content*
 
*content removed for personal content*
It would be more beneficial to for both of you to state your opinion and experiences in context - "this happened 12 months ago" or "a year ago this was an answer to an email"  There has been a turnaround in the customer service by this company that was widely publicized and discussed on this forum.  To me having perspective is being able to say, "I had a bad experience but I understand they have made changes that others report as being successful."  That is airing your gripe but acknowledging that things may be different, CURRENTLY!

To be clear I do not work for or own stock in TO.  I do feed it to my allergy dog and he is doing very well on it.  Because of his particular allergies we won't have any other higher protein (the 2 formulas we use have 26% which is more than the normal 20-22% in allergy formulas) quality foods to use.  I also like this formula because I can add some meat & fish to it without adding calcium.  My ordering experience has been excellent.  When I have had questions via email or phone they have been answered.  Of course I'm not worried about them calculating kcal per cup, I can do that with the information (kcal/kg) provided to a satisfactory extent (meaning for my needs).  I did not start using TO until January 2007, after I had read here that their CS had had a turnaround and new employees.  Admittedly I do not have a lot of options for Bugsy, but if I had a problem with TO I wouildn't feed it. 

I would like to see more helpful (to readers) posts as opposed to airing of personal gripes made to sound like facts, research studies, generalized condemnation.  That just sounds like bashing and that is asking for some backlash.

To be clear, this thread was re-opened by a newer member who I've noticed is a very STRONG advocate of TWO.
 
I doubt that either of the posters under attack even noticed that this is an ancient thread.  I did not until I went back and looked.
 
Let's be sure we know what we're talking about before we go bashing members who simply responded to a thread.  We don't NOT know that either of these folks had a personal agenda, nor that they even NOTICED that this was an old thread.