Well, mid grade for me I think...

I honestly think as much as I'd rather not, that the prescription foods or Eukanuba are the way to go, these fancy healthy foods I think are just too much for some dogs.

 
  I haven't tried Natural Balance because it isn't available in my area but Jessie has much firmer stools, more energy, and a shinier coat on Eagle Pack than she did on Nutro or Eukanuba. Lori (user name willowchow) has a dog with IBD and the only food her dog did well on for a while was a canned Hill's prescription diet; recently her dog's been able to eat Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Fish and her coat has gotten much shinier.

ORIGINAL: mokie

thanks for the welcome. I thought about Natural Balance but for some reason I haven't found anything about it that pulls me where it would be beneficial to my IBD dog. I honestly think as much as I'd rather not, that the prescription foods or Eukanuba are the way to go, these fancy healthy foods I think are just too much for some dogs. 

 
If you want to stay away from anything "fancy" (which I assume to mean complicated) than the Natural Balance Allergy formulas would be perfect to try.  Very simple and easily digestable ingredients. People with IBD are often advised to stay away from anything containing corn and grains containing gluten while potatoes and rice are recommended since they are a soluble fiber that do not cause the intestinal walls to contract causing inflammation.

Mokie- Is it the Natural Balance Ultra Premium formula that you looked into? I could see where you would think that one was kind of "fancy". But their allergy formulas are great simple foods for dogs that can't handle a lot of ingredients. Each has only 1 protein and 1 carb source. I would recommend trying either their Venison & Rice, Duck & Potato, or Sweet Potato and Fish. One thing I really like about their foods is that for each formula there are matching kibble, canned, and treats.

Here are the ingredients for the Duck & Potato (just for example):

Potatoes, Duck, Duck Meal, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Potato Fiber, DL-methionine, L-Lysine, Sodium Chloride, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed Oil, Rosemary Extract, Natural Flavor, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Vitamin K1 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid (Vitamin B-9).

And here's a link to their allergy foods:

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/allergy/home.html

Does it bother anyone that the first ingredient is potatoes?  I thought that your first/primary ingredient should be a meat?  What is potatoe fiber? And I thought DL-Methionine was the bad source of Vit. K.  Maybe this is why I have stayed away from it.  Can someone enlighten?

DL-Methionine is not the bad source of vitamin K, your thinking of something else.  It's an amino acid that is used as a natural urinary acidifier.   I had researched this some time ago when Willow was having serious UTI issues.  If you've got a dog with urinary issues, it's a good thing to have in the kibble.  If a kibble makes the urine Ph too high or low, which some do, you can have all kinds of problems.

I believe it's Menadione that is the name of synthetic vitamin K.   That is not a good thing.  Although, I don't go as crazy over it as some people do.  If a food was all good and that was the only problem, I probably wouldn't pass it up if it was my only choice.

I'm sort of on the same page with the meat as the first ingredient thing.  Yes, it would be ideal but your talking about an allergy dog.  And, dogs that could potentially have digestion issues.   I know there is a formula to figure out how much meat after water removed vs carbs, etc.  But, I think (and this is my opinion) if your dealing with an allergy dog the simple formulas are the way to go.  And, if they do well on something with carbs first, I'd stick with it.  Because most likely they are not going to do well with something with a ton of protein.  

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Does it bother anyone that the first ingredient is potatoes? I thought that your first/primary ingredient should be a meat?

    I agree with you about having meat first but for a dog with IBD something like Natural Balance should work better than a food like Nature's Logic. Several weeks ago I asked Natural Balance how much meat meal they used in their foods and the answer was that 23% of the protein came from meat sources, which means that it's definitely a carb based food. I was thinking about feeding the duck for a short time to see if Jessie had developed any new food allergies; she was having flare ups and I wasn't sure if they were caused by her seasonal allergies or her food. I decided to use IVD Rabbit and Potato instead since my vet had it and it had almost the same amount of protein as Natural Balance. A lot of members do feed Natural Balance and really like it. 
    As for meat being a problem for allergy dogs; I disagree. Jessie is allergic to chicken but has done well on Timberwolf Ocean Blue, Nature's Variety Venison and all the Eagle Pack Holistic foods except chicken and rice. I think allergy dogs really need the meat protein to help their immune system; it's just a matter of knowing which meat to avoid. 

ORIGINAL: willowchow

DL-Methionine is not the bad source of vitamin K, your thinking of something else.  It's an amino acid that is used as a natural urinary acidifier.   I had researched this some time ago when Willow was having serious UTI issues.  If you've got a dog with urinary issues, it's a good thing to have in the kibble.  If a kibble makes the urine Ph too high or low, which some do, you can have all kinds of problems.

I believe it's Menadione that is the name of synthetic vitamin K.   That is not a good thing.  Although, I don't go as crazy over it as some people do.  If a food was all good and that was the only problem, I probably wouldn't pass it up if it was my only choice.

I'm sort of on the same page with the meat as the first ingredient thing.  Yes, it would be ideal but your talking about an allergy dog.  And, dogs that could potentially have digestion issues.   I know there is a formula to figure out how much meat after water removed vs carbs, etc.  But, I think (and this is my opinion) if your dealing with an allergy dog the simple formulas are the way to go.  And, if they do well on something with carbs first, I'd stick with it.  Because most likely they are not going to do well with something with a ton of protein.  

[]

 
Oh yep, youre' right it's Menadione I'm thinking of.  I just might give this food a try.  I'm glad willow is finally coming around with the food.  I remember all the trouble you were having with her "way back when".

Just a thought, what is his food and water bowl made from? Plastic or stainless?
 
I was a vettech and a shepherd came in with problems on his face and mouth.  Turns out the owner had recently got a plastic bowl.  He switched to stainless and problem gone.  This dog was looking at major surgery to cut away parts of his jaw.

Dogs with arthiritis should stay away from white potatoes.  Nightshade plants are bad for arthritis .  I assume this means sweet potatoes too. 

ORIGINAL: tia2

Does it bother anyone that the first ingredient is potatoes? 

 
If you look at the ingredients of most foods that contain meat as the first ingredient, it is often followed by 3 or 4 grains, meaning there is more grain than meat even though meat is the first ingredient.  I think sometimes too much importance is placed on what the first ingredient is.  It doesn't mean anything unless you read beyond it to see what the other ingredients are.

Ooops, just wanted to clarify.  It's the IBD dogs that sometimes don't do well on multiple types of meat.  Willow does OK on beef, fish and turkey but not chicken.  But, it's all an individual thing, I've heard about some dogs from my vet who couldn't eat the i/d because it was the rice that bothered them.  It's all what works for you.  And, sometimes when you've got issues your choices get limited. So, a food like NB Fish where to me the only drawback is meat is not listed first, is a Godsend. 

This is what I feed that he does well on...aside from the dull coat.  (His stool even turns white..which I thought was complete utilization and a good thing)  He's getting a salmon oil capsule daily now and a bath this afternoon!  I just may stick with this food afterall. [sm=lame.gif]
 
 
 
This is Chicken soup adult:  All this time I didn't realize it contained probiotics?
 
Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, ocean fish meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, oatmeal, millet, white rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potatoes, egg product, tomato pomace, duck, salmon, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, choline chloride, dried chicory root, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-carnitine, Enterococcus faecieum, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Saccharomyces cerevesiae fermentation solubles, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.
 

ORIGINAL: tia2

Does it bother anyone that the first ingredient is potatoes?  I thought that your first/primary ingredient should be a meat? 

Potatoes are something like 80% water, after the water weight is removed during the cooking process, potatoes would actually be much lower down the ingredient list.

I think sometimes too much importance is placed on what the first ingredient is.

 
I agree, if two foods have 22% protein, 12% fat and the bulk of the remainder is a carbohydrate, is one better because it lists a meat source first.  In either case the majority of the food will be a carb.

I looked into their allergy formula sweet potato and fish, and did check out all their formulas as well.  However, I went to rate it all dog food and found some ratings that it gave dogs diarrhea or loose stool.  I certainly don't need that, so I'm a bit leary.