Homecooked recipe- how does it look?

Hi,
   I'm back an forth on the raw diet too.Do they really need all the supplements with this diet?

ORIGINAL: lazypeplesuck

Hi,
I'm back an forth on the raw diet too.Do they really need all the supplements with this diet?

Yes. With homecooked they do need all the supplements, I believe.
Not with raw though, unless your dog is sick. I mean, I add extras in, but Ella has been battling some skin infections.

I used to use up to 4 oz of brown rice in a 20 qt pot....now tho, I don't use any grain at all, unless I got distracted and added a bit too much water...in that case I'll toss in some quick cooking oats to thicken it up a bit.
 
The ONLY supplement I use is eggshell powder.  But, my crew do eat kibble in the morning and either homecooked or raw for dinner.
 
Some poor soul keeps emailing me for the recipe.....something with birds in their email addy....and I keep loosing the request.  So, please try again???  I'm so sorry.

Correct me if I'm wrong ... but I think the bonemeal needs to be fed with the meat so that the meal has the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio.  If you feed meat with bones (RMB's) then this is no longer the case, but because you're feeding just muscle meat - you need to have calcium to go along with it...

I'm not sure if this applies if you're feeding half raw half kibble.....

ORIGINAL: silver_wlf

Correct me if I'm wrong ... but I think the bonemeal needs to be fed with the meat so that the meal has the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio. If you feed meat with bones (RMB's) then this is no longer the case, but because you're feeding just muscle meat - you need to have calcium to go along with it...

I'm not sure if this applies if you're feeding half raw half kibble.....

If you feed a meat without bones, the calcium supplement could be eggshells. If you feed kibble, the correct amounts of calcium are already in it. The trick with feeding one raw meal and one kibble meal is the balancing amount act. You have to make sure that you're not overfeeding or underfeeding when replacing kibble with raw or raw with kibble.

This is why I weigh ALL of Ella's food regardless of it's kibble OR raw.

I looks simple enough---a bit too heavy on the carbs and veggies though.  When I home cook, I don't use any grain (my guy has a grain sensitivity) and I only use 1/8 cup of  pureed veggies per 1 lb of meat (usually green beans and or squash).  I also supplement my homecooked with Wysong's Call of the Wild supplement, and salmon oil.  For me, more veggies means loose stools--Yuck.  He loves homecooked, but  95% of his diet is raw, which he does really great on.
 
Have fun experimenting with homecooked and just tweak the recipe until it works right for you and Gingerbread.

I keep my meat portions at around 20 %.  I think higher meat portions can be hard on the kidneys, and the good quality kibble I feed is around 18 %, I think.
 
I do feed very, very well cooked grains.  My dogs love them and don't have a problem with it.  Variety in grains and veggies and meat types are important.
 
Nutritiondata (dot) com is a good source of looking at how much calcium and phosporus is in a meat.
 
I would be cautious of adding brewers yeast, most espeically if you have ever had yeast problems,  I've read that the connection can't be proven; however it's better to stay on the safe side.   If you are insistent on supplementing with yeast, then try nutrional yeast.  However, I would instead recommend getting a small minxed B basic vitamin in a capsule (so you can pour it on the non-hot food and even split the dosage if you want).  Using just one B vit long term can be a problem, it is best to use a mix of B vits.
 
Don't use kelp.  I have, but this week I visited a specialist vet who said that using kelp can cause Hashimoto's in dogs.  We were in a hurry, so I don't really know if that is the case in a dog that might be hypo-thyroid to begin with, or if it is in any dog that is healthy.  She is top-notch and really knows her stuff, but I just didn't clarify if htis could happen to any dog.  So, I would hold off.
 
As far as bee pollen goes, I'm leary of giving it to dogs simply b/c they could have an allergic reaction - but I've not studied this much.  I've just chosen to play it safe with bee pollen.
 
In my cabinet you will find calcium citrate - it is very easily absorbed and easier to deal with than drying eggshells for us busy types. The ratio should be 1:1 to 2:1 favoring the calcium - as in giving up to calcium 2 times more than phosporus.  A multi B - I don't give a whole lot at one time.  Because my girl is on a home-cooked food elimination diet with no kibble, I also give her at each meal a multi by Thorne Research called Canine Basic. It has the B vit's, so I'm not currently supplementing with the B.  When I was giving just the occasionally homecooked, then I did the B's.  But, now that the homecooked is full time, I am using the Thorne multti, and don't need the B's since it has it in it. BUT, they don't appear to be very much in there, so I might supplement just a tad bit more mixed B's in time.  I'm limited now in what I can give b/c of the elimination diet process.
 
  I think giving Carlson's fish oil (the body oil, not liver oil) is fine.  I never did but a tiny bit at a time - you don't want to give too much oil in one setting b/c of a possible pancreatic attack. Olive oil is also good.  For my 35 lb girl, it was suggested that I  give about 2 tsp- teaspoon- er DAY, not at once.  And I wouldn't start her out at that level.  Actually, I've only given about 1/4 tsp of fish oil at one time.  But, if I cook up chicken or something in a pan, then I use olive oil.
 
 

the one supplement you CANNOT leave out if you are homecooking is the calcium, in this recipe it is supplied by the bonemeal.

  I looked at the site you linked and didn't see any info on whether or not Micki Voisard is an animal nutritionist; you can order Monica Sega;'s booklet " Cooked Diet Recipes" for $5.95 ; you may also like the booklet about enhancing commercial diets. I have the Cooked Diet recipe booklet and the recipe for a 20 pound dog uses more meat and includes beef liver; the vegetables are different too, but her recipes are for a week's worth of food. Her recipes do not use brewer's yeast, which you think may be a problem for Gingerbread. You could also use the 15 or 25 pound dog recipe, just feed more or less accordingly; good luck with whatever you decide.

It said that she is a veterinarian, but not a nutritionist. Either way, I think the recipe looks easy and healthy. I may try it, as I am really trying to find a good recipe for Jetta that is simple and doesn't use gross meats like hearts and livers. Where would I even find that stuff??? lol.

I may try it, as I am really trying to find a good recipe for Jetta that is simple and doesn't use gross meats like hearts and livers. Where would I even find that stuff??? lol.

 
   The heart in Monica Segal's recipes is for iron and the small amount of beef liver is for vitamin A; her recipes get  most of the nutrients from the ingredients; they require some supplements such as bone meal but several do not need a multi-vitamin.

Yes. With homecooked they do need all the supplements, I believe.
Not with raw though, unless your dog is sick. I mean, I add extras in, but Ella has been battling some skin infections.

 
  It depends on the recipe; many of the cooked recipes in Monica Segal's booklet do not require a multi vitamin but all her recipes require bone meal and some require cod liver oil capsules; but they don't require a lot of supplements because many of the nutrients are in the foods that are used. Also, it's not true that raw food always has more nutrients than cooked food; for example, cooked liver has more vitamin A than raw liver. Many times raw diets do need supplements;    [linkhttp://www.monicasegal.com/newsletters/2006-11NL.php]http://www.monicasegal.com/newsletters/2006-11NL.php[/link]
 
Fact of the Month
Raw Diets Don#%92t Need to Have Supplements Added
 
True, some don#%92t - but most do. I suppose it#%92s all about what your particular belief system might be. Mine is that in order to know how to help a dog that needs dietary modifications, we need to be able to apply nutrient values to the existing diet first. Should the current diet be lacking or supplying too much of a vitamin or mineral, correction becomes easy if we know the problem from the start. Without having some kind of guideline, it#%92s nothing short of a guessing game. I prefer to guess less when attempting to help a dog and in fact, prefer to make the diet right to begin with so there#%92s less risk of problems down the road. For this reason, I use the National Research Council (NRC) guidelines. Don#%92t confuse NRC with AAFCO. The latter is a different body. NRC is independent study with no affiliation or representation at pet food companies.
 
   

doesn't use gross meats like hearts and livers. Where would I even find that stuff???

Walmart, or any butcher.

You need gross meats, for a balanced diet. Hearts are ok to deal with. I can't handle livers, so I dump them in the food processor, and dump them over the food, or freeze them into ice cubes, and use them for treats.

There are some great recipes here:
[linkhttp://b-naturals.com/Jun2004.php]http://b-naturals.com/Jun2004.php[/link]
I like the "cancer" recipes because they are grain free and contain a lot of antioxidants. 
 
Wysong's website also has some recipes:
 

Breakfast of Champions

1½ lbs. raw chuck steak/roast cut into 1-inch pieces**

½ cup berries if in season

2 tsp. Wysong E.F.A.™ with or without fish oil

1 cup live active culture organic yogurt

8 tsp. Call of the Wild™

2 tsp. Wysong Natural Honey™

1 banana or apple chopped

Wysong Oxherphol™ Natural Antioxidant Preservative - Oil (4 drops)

or Powder (1¼ tsp.) (if storing)

 

Dinner of Delight

1 lb. raw chuck steak/roast cut into 1-inch pieces**

1 - 14 oz. can of Wysong All Meat and Organ Diets™ (vary)

½-1 cup shredded spinach or other green leafy vegetable

½ cup pureed carrots or broccoli (vary between the two)

½ cup feta cheese (in chunks or crumbled) - optional

10 tsp. Call of the Wild™

2 tsp. Wysong E.F.A.™ with or without fish oil

2 squirts Pet Inoculant™

Sprinkle Garlic Whole Salt™ on top when serving

6-8 crumbled chunks of Archetype™

Wysong Oxherphol™ Natural Antioxidant Preservative -

Oil (4 drops) or Powder (1¼ tsp.) (if storing)

* Similar non-Wysong products may be substituted.

** Other raw meat sources such as lamb, turkey or chicken may be used instead.

 

 

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Meat and Vegetable Casserole

3 - 14 oz. cans of Wysong All Meat Diets™ (any variety)

1 cup pureed fresh vegetables (mixture)

6-8 crumbled chunks of Archetype™

14 tsp. Call of the Wild™

2 tsp. E.F.A.™ with or without fish oil

Occasionally stir in 2 whole organic eggs (without shells)

 

These are from "How To Apologize To Your Pet" [linkhttp://www.wysong.net/apologize.shtml#pdf]http://www.wysong.net/apologize.shtml#pdf[/link]

 

I LOVE their "Call of the Wild" supplement!  You can add it to any meat, cooked or raw and it balances out the calcium and other nutrients for you- no guesswork.

 

 

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