WHAT is with the Purina people?

ORIGINAL: sandra_slayton

I understand exactly what you are saying. But on the other hand, I see many posts here by feeders of premium food whose dogs have allergies, senstivie stomaches, arthritis. That brings me full circle to why if feeding the best prevents these things, why do these dogs have them? Why aren't they in perfect condition? On my golden forums I read of 4 year old who was on premium dying of cancer, or a 9 year old whose owner has all hers on raw to prevent cancer--but he died of cancer. Many have HD and have had hips totally replaced. Many are having tumors removed. Somethings can not be prevented no matter what food you feed, and none of mine has had anything that changing from Purina would prevent or cure.

Sandra!
Honestly!
What the heck does that have to do with democrats???
Sheesh!
We're talking about democrats here!
[]

But on the other hand, I see many posts here by feeders of premium food whose dogs have allergies, senstivie stomaches, arthritis.

ORIGINAL: sandra_slayton

I tried several premiums before it hit me that grains were the big deal with my dog.  Innova, Go Natural, Artemis and a couple of others.
 
I'm glad I immediately took her off the SciDi Regular Dry that animal rescue handed me.  She was so scrawny looking when we got her that changing food was an immediate thought. 
 
Flouridated water is potentially carcinogenic so even the best diet may not exclude that as a cancer risk.

Flouridated water is potentially carcinogenic so even the best diet may not exclude that as a cancer risk

 
I miss the spring well water we had when I was a kid.  Our well never got low and a couple of times my grandparents and uncle's well went dry and they came and got water from us.  We also filled barrels on a sled and took it into the field to put dippers of water on tomato and a few other plants.
 
HOWEVER a well did have drawbacks.  One night we sat down to eat and something on the table did not smell good.  We all came to the conclusion it was the ice tea.  Daddy went out with flashlight, went into well house and there floating on the top of the water was a dead possum.  YUK PUKE  GAG.  Even so i felt sorry for the poor little critter, thinking of his struggle to get out of that well.  Anyway, Daddy got him out and we had to put all kinds of chemicals in the well and we got water from neighbor for a while.

Sandra!
Honestly!
What the heck does that have to do with democrats???
Sheesh!
We're talking about democrats here!

 
I belong to no party as I said.  I am not like my grandpa and would vote for a monkey for prez with three toed sloth for VP just because they are repub.  Also in some cases, these critter may do a better job than some politians we have have over the years![][]

ORIGINAL: Firestorm

From what I have seen Pedigree, Science diet, and Iams all have grain as their first ingredients.  Purina One and Purina Pro Plan do not have grain as the first ingredient.  My vet said to make sure the first ingredient is meat/meat product.  Whats funny is he sells science diet.  I feed Purina One because Harley likes and is doing well on it.  I am doing other research and am considering other brands but not completely convinced.  Harley had been on Euk and beneful and Ol Roy before I got him.  I have gradually taken him up the levels and have tried a few of the better brands.  QC is another concern of mine as well as the AAFco testing.  I want to make sure that whatever I do feed is getting great QC although problems can still arise.  Hmm maybe there is some security with a big name company...who knows.  I have learned alot on here and I do research on brands and try to do the best for my dog. 
We all are trying to do what we feel is best for our dogs...thats what is important.  I guess we could continue this discussion in 5 to 10 years and discuss how our dogs are fairing then.  Only time will tell.  My dog Kane was on Purina dog chow and Hi pro and he died at 8 due to seizures which started one night and never stopped till he was put down.  Would better food have prevented a hereditary condition who know?  But I am not going to feel bad that I feed him Purina and think that I killed him through feeding him that food.  I suppose anyone who has lost a dog younger then they thought they should should soley blame the food.  I don't think there is a person on here that feeds only kibble and no bones, treats or supplements or Raw or homecooked.  So I guess everyone doesn't think that their kibble is good enough on its own.

It is not just the first ingredient that is important.  If you have meat as a first and the next 3 or 4 ingredients are grains then you have a food that is not good for a dog, since it is mostly grain which is difficult for the dog to digest.

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

I'm sure glad the democrats took the house, hopefully they will take the senate too.

they will

I am not like my grandpa and would vote for a monkey for prez

Uh. It seems to me that's exactly what we have in the White House at the moment.
 
 

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

I'm sure glad the democrats took the house, hopefully they will take the senate too.

they will

[sm=dance.gif]

My opinion here is, obviously of no real value but I'll add my two cents anyways (more kindling to the fire.)

There is a large prevalence in hereditary diseases within dogs primarily because gene pools and breeding stock is very limited.  This is due to alot of things.  Spay and Neuter programs (go ahead and flame me there but it's true) are probably the most responsible.  And within the competition set (show, performance, work, agility...etc) the perceived need for stock from that "one" line or that "one" dog.  In addition there is the puppy mill cause: the breeding of inferior, untested dogs.  There is also the compounding of this problem by linebreeding-which will solidify a line (I can look at a Pharaoh Hound's head and tell you whether it's from the same line as my dog is.) but it also severely limits the gene pool,

All of these practices exacerbate and increase the likelihood that genetic, hereditary imperfections will come to the forefront...and will affect our dogs.  Feeding Purina or Eagle Pack or any other food will not prevent these conditions.  It may delay or mask the onset of such, but food is not a preventative.  If your dog has hip dysplasia or genetic retinal atrophy or luxating patellas feeding the best food in the world isn't going to change the condition of that dog.  (I feel another flame coming)  You can reduce certain symptoms but that doesn't change the underlying cause.  (Take any headache medicine in the world and it still isn't going to remove the pickaxe from your skull.) 

By the same token, feeding a poor food isn't going to cause these conditions.  There is absolutely no justification that I've ever seen that will prove a causal relationship between food and a hereditary condition. 

Did dogs do better 50 years ago on "dog chow?"  Probably.  But these dogs also had alot more exercise, somewhat better socialization (anybody besides me remember the "neighborhood dog?") and they had jobs to do (get the paper, greet the milkman, rescue Timmy from the well.)  The dogs didn't have to deal with flouride in the water, lead in the soil, magnesium in the fish,  preservatives in everything, and hydrocarbons in the air.  And they didn't have to deal with owners who were gone 10-12 hours a day (for the most part) nor being overfed.  (I never saw a truly obese dog until a few years ago.)

Before everyone gets all uppity:  I am a food snob.  Any food that I feed my dog must meet my standards.  And yes, I do eat a few kibbles of any food I feed my dog.  There are foods I won't feed and there are foods I will feed.  I have two PHs, both have completely different digestive systems.  One looks at lawns as if they were a salad bar.  He eats fresh greens, mint leaves, and all kinds of leaves.  When he's got diarrhea he finds these little clover shaped plants and eats only them.  If I let him eat them the diarrhea stops.  The other one eats grass and pukes all over the place.  But somehow I can use one food that they both like and they both have solid stools, sometimes like little crunchy poops.

Some dogs will do better on certain foods, some dogs will do better on others.  Let it go, no one is changing anyone's mind.

ORIGINAL: sandra_slayton

Sandra!
Honestly!
What the heck does that have to do with democrats???
Sheesh!
We're talking about democrats here!

I belong to no party as I said. 

I'm a libertarian...I h@te all professional politicians.  He who governs least, governs best!

I really don't want to get into this, but I want to help explain why food could cause seemingly non-food-related issues, like allergies (to things besides food). If you fuel your body with potato chips, ice cream, candy bars, french fries, etc. (and no, I'm not comparing that sort of diet to any dog food [sm=peace.gif]), you're most likely going to get sick a lot, and have a lot of health issues, not necessarily just diahrrea, throwing up, or anything else that's obviously food related.

 
Again I have to ask. How can we put so much blame on food when we are constantly pumping toxic chemicals into our dogs...such as heartworm prevention, flea prevention and even vaccinations. 
Its true, there are tons of premium feeders on this forum that have health and allergy issues with their dogs. 
So do I think even for a second that they are food related??? Heck no!  And most of these people have changed food more than once to try to help their dogs.
 
Yes, especially if/when you have a health issue, you fool with changing foods to try to make things better. I believe allergies are caused by a weakened immune system...and I would try to help by making sure my dog had good food. I would try to build his immune system.  However, many a dogs problems have been cured (or made better) by some of the Science Diet formulas, I have seen it several times. They are sure not what anyone here would call premium food. We ourselves switched Ollie to a few different foods, trying to help with his allergies.   No, they did not help either.  He needed allergy shots. He now eats Eagle Pack and he remains allergy free, but he also gets NO chemicals in the form of preventatives.
Again, I am not suggesting no preventatives or vaccinations (whether I believe in them or not) but I am saying how can we possibly put so much importance into a few ingredients while we are putting so many toxins in our pets. There is just no way in the world we could possible know how important these foods are as long as we are putting these chemicals into them.

ORIGINAL: chelsea_b

I am not like my grandpa and would vote for a monkey for prez

Uh. It seems to me that's exactly what we have in the White House at the moment.

 
ROFL!! [sm=rofl.gif]

I really don't want to get into this, but I want to help explain why food could cause seemingly non-food-related issues, like allergies (to things besides food). If you fuel your body with potato chips, ice cream, candy bars, french fries, etc. (and no, I'm not comparing that sort of diet to any dog food ), you're most likely going to get sick a lot, and have a lot of health issues, not necessarily just diahrrea, throwing up, or anything else that's obviously food related. You're probably going to have a weakened immune system, which will make you prone to infections, PLUS any allergies you have will probably be WAY worse. Things you never even noticed on a healthy diet, allergies, maybe arthritis or joint pain, and many other things, will show up on an unhealthy diet, because your body doesn't have the resources or strength to deal with it. That doesn't necessarily mean you're going to feel tired (although that's likely too), or even look bad, you might have great skin, healthy looking hair, bright eyes, enough energy, and yet the unhealthy diet causes problems in other areas of your health.

Sandra, I'm not even suggesting this is true for your dogs, I'm just trying to explain what others didn't seem to be able to.

I do have to say something. I don't believe that just because you might be genetically prone to problems, you have to have them. Just because heart disease is common in my relatives, even the ones who eat healthy and exercise, doesn't mean I shouldn't try to prevent it in myself. And likewise for dogs. Just because labs are prone to obesity doesn't mean I can't prevent my lab mix from becoming obese. Just because goldens are prone to so many things doesn't mean you can't try to prevent them.

THAT is exactly what i've been trying to say []

I see many posts here by feeders of premium food whose dogs have allergies, senstivie stomaches, arthritis.  That brings me full circle to why if feeding the best prevents these things, why do these dogs have them?  Why aren't they in perfect condition?

There are many,many different premium foods,there isnt one that will suit every dog,some dont do well on foods with chicken, whilst others thrive on those same foods,some dogs react to grains,others not.If one food doesnt work there are plenty of others that should, until you find one that helps your dogs be in "perfect condition".

I am sure everyone is aware that arthritic dogs,or those 'prone' to arthritis should be on low/no grain diets,same goes for cancer,as cancer cells feed off of carbs,to put it simply.Grains aggravate arthritic joints.Feeding foods high in grains and preservatives proved to be carcinogenic(sp? has escaped me) is NOT feeding preventatively,but rather the opposite,and if a dog is indeed in line for arthritis or cancer, feeding foods from the NOT recommended list is giving the dog a better chance of getting these things,is it not?

As Chelsea put it... Just because goldens are prone to so many things doesn't mean you can't try to prevent them,nor does it mean one should sit back and accept their dogs fate just because they are "prone" to any disease.

How can we put so much blame on food when we are constantly pumping toxic chemicals into our dogs...such as heartworm prevention, flea prevention and even vaccinations.

 
I totally agree with you, Cherokee hasn't been vaccinated in..several years, I can't remember exactly when she last was. And I have an argument with myself every time I have to put flea chemicals on her. "She's allergic to fleas. Look how miserable she is." "But is putting chemicals on her really helpful, or does is just make her allergies worse in the long run?" "Long run! How can you even think about the long run while your dog is ripping her skin apart because she's so itchy??" "Good point!" and on the pesticides go. [&:]
 
Food is something I can control every day without making her miserable. So that's what I do. I believe it makes a difference.

I'm a libertarian...I h@te all professional politicians. He who governs least, governs best!

 
I have been voting for 40 years and i don't think I have ever gone only one party.  And there were times i voted for one guy for prez and wish i could take the running mate of the other guy for VP because I thouht he was better suited.  Yester I hit some demos, some repub, a couple of lib and one independent.
 
I have never forgotten the Academy Awards many years ago--I believe Bot Hope wa still MC and he said "This is the year for Science Fiction movies, Star Wars, Close Encounters of the Third Kind and a movie about honest politians."  i don't remember what that movie was, but I never forgot that "joke."