Just talked to Purina

Thanks,Glenda...every once in awhile I come up with something valuable here, lol.
 
I don't think everyone was looking at the whole picture.  Its more then what you feed...it is as I said environment, genectics, and so on.  We can feed better for health but we can not control genetics that our dogs already have or their entire environment.  We can only give them the best care that we can...feeding the best will not fix genetic problems or environmental.  It will help them some.  Obviously feeding what the best is that your dog can process is what we all should try to do.  But it won't cure all ailments and diseases.  If it were only that easy to do...buy great dog food and have a healthy dog.  If that were the case it would put vets just about out of business...

Actually Chelsea, McDonalds are really almost the ONLY fries I will eat! I don't even order them at the other joints!

 
You might want to rethink that.
 
Ever seen the movie "Supersize Me", in the movie this guy eats a McDonald's diet for a whole month, gains all kinds of weight and his blood panel is completely off the chart.
 
BUT, that is not the biggest kicker, it comes at the end of the movie, he puts different fast foods like burgers, chicken sandwiches,fries etc. in  glass jars, seals them off and leaves them on the counter.
 
I swear, 2 weeks after sitting on the counter everything else other than the McDonald's fries have molded, fallen apart, and just looking completely nasty. The fries are in perfect shape like they were bought that day...................preservatives do a wonderful job.

Hmm preservatives...is that what keeps us here longer...its like being pickled lol.
I rarely eat fast food...I don't feel that the ocassional stop at McD's i gonna hurt ya much but maybe over time.  Then again their are people who eat great and still have high cholestoral(sp) so that is another genectic.  Everyone is different just as every dog and they should be treated as an individual and what works on one doesn't work on all.  Buy the best food that your dog can process and does well with.  If they are sick and cannot process top of the line then find something else.
I do think it is odd that a lot of the declared best for your dog have fruit and veggies.

And if they aren't waffle cut, they just aren't good fries

Yum. I used to work at Chik-Fil-A and now I'm spoiled. Just as well, makes me choose the chili, soups, or salads at other places. I just can't be good at Chik-Fil-A though.

So I've never jumped on the "Stomp Purina" bandwagon except for arguing very specific points that tend to come up (corn, the benefits of as meaty a diet as possible, etc). Here's why - Purina One Performance was in the rotation of foods I used to give my flock guardians. They did OK on it - I mentioned somewhere else the huge improvement I saw when I switched them to EVO RM. But it's not what I'd call a trashy food.

I just looked at the ingredients again to refresh my memory - corn gluten meal, whole ground corn, menadione's a problem for some here I know but it's not one of my drop dead issues. No chemical preservatives, nothing horrible. My allergy cat did pretty well for short periods on the One Salmon - it was good to have a food she could eat "in a pinch" since her main food was so hard to get. My mother in law isn't ready to go "all the way" to super premium food but she was recently struck by the difference between my Maggie (turns 13 in Dec) and her Tippy (turns 10 in the spring). Tippy is looking and acting like an old dog but Maggie's got a few grey hairs and that's it. She gets that wonderful brand called "Whatever's Cheapest" at the grocery store for her dogs. I encouraged her to look for Pro Plan or even the new Diamond Naturals (the Senior is very similiar to Canidae Platinum).

I used to have to balance what I felt was how far an adoptive family was willing to go, for a particular food, against the dog's health, and I'd often include a bag of Pro Plan, Diamond, Chicken Soup, or something similiar, with the adoption care package. That would often at least get them looking at ingredients in the premium food section. []

Based entirely on threads in this forum, the following information has been offered and accepted:
 
1)      No two dogs are alike
2)      Some dogs do well on "grocery store" brands
3)      Some dogs do well on “premium” brands
4)      Some dogs get sick on grocery store brands
5)      Some dogs get sick on premium brands
 
Now, imagine you are at a party with 3 other dog owners and a brand new puppy owner.  The 4 dog owners each feed Ol#%92 Roy, Canidae, Science Diet and Purina One, respectively.  The puppy owner asks this group of trusted friends which food she should feed her puppy.
 
Each owner extols the virtue of his or her chosen food based on the respective dog#%92s present condition (which we#%92ve seen is entirely possible).  Which food does the puppy owner choose?  From a purely logical perspective, the puppy owner has received nothing except opinion (stories, word of mouth, whatever you want to call it…).
 
Now I come in and put the 4 brands of dog food side by side, and compare ingredient quantities, caloric density, total protein, total fat, presence of preservatives and known carcinogens etc.  Would this arm the puppy owner with any more information?  OF COURSE IT WOULD!!!  Could she make an educated guess, with only this information, which is the higher quality food?  Again, of course she could.  Further, she could compare prices, and make an educated decision on which food gave her the most “bang” for her buck. 
 
What she can#%92t do is determine unequivocally which food her dog will do best on based on any of this information.  But we all agree that nobody can do that without trying a brand anyway, so that#%92s a moot point. 
 
Feed your dog whatever you want. But don#%92t try to tell me that Kibbles & Bits is “just as good” as Canidae because your dog appears healthy.

ORIGINAL: chinook

Based entirely on threads in this forum, the following information has been offered and accepted:

1)      No two dogs are alike
2)      Some dogs do well on "grocery store" brands
3)      Some dogs do well on "premium” brands
4)      Some dogs get sick on grocery store brands
5)      Some dogs get sick on premium brands

Now, imagine you are at a party with 3 other dog owners and a brand new puppy owner.  The 4 dog owners each feed Ol' Roy, Canidae, Science Diet and Purina One, respectively.  The puppy owner asks this group of trusted friends which food she should feed her puppy.

Each owner extols the virtue of his or her chosen food based on the respective dog's present condition (which we've seen is entirely possible).  Which food does the puppy owner choose?  From a purely logical perspective, the puppy owner has received nothing except opinion (stories, word of mouth, whatever you want to call it…).

Now I come in and put the 4 brands of dog food side by side, and compare ingredient quantities, caloric density, total protein, total fat, presence of preservatives and known carcinogens etc.  Would this arm the puppy owner with any more information?  OF COURSE IT WOULD!!!  Could she make an educated guess, with only this information, which is the higher quality food?  Again, of course she could.  Further, she could compare prices, and make an educated decision on which food gave her the most "bang” for her buck. 

What she can't do is determine unequivocally which food her dog will do best on based on any of this information.  But we all agree that nobody can do that without trying a brand anyway, so that's a moot point. 

Feed your dog whatever you want. But don't try to tell me that Kibbles & Bits is "just as good” as Canidae because your dog appears healthy.

 
They may not be the better food BUT if it is what your dog can process and not get sick on then that is best for that dog.

ORIGINAL: ColleenC

ORIGINAL: Edie
An aquaintances son dies of leukemia aged 11,his mom was a heroin addict,and also didnt look after herself at all during her pregnancy with him.I know she asked herself a million times if that could have contributed to his disease.

But plenty of children with mothers who took care of themselves during pregnancy develop problems as well.  A study with controlled variables would need to be done to make that a fact.  Many dogs who are on a diet that you would approve of have developed cancer as well as ones on a lower quality diet.  There are so many variables that can contribute to cancer.  Genetics, diet, pesticides...on and on.  Until a study is done linking a certain food to cancer, then its all opinion and guesses.

 
First of all, I don't think you can compare most childhood cancers with cancer in adult dogs, since the dog is an adult when they get it.
 
As far as diet goes, according to the American Cancer Society, there IS a link between cancer and what you eat: [linkhttp://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_3_1x_Link_Between_Lifestyle_and_CancerMarch03.asp]http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_3_1x_Link_Between_Lifestyle_and_CancerMarch03.asp[/link]
 
This is how I look at it--if you know that you, or your dog, may be predesposed to cancer, do you just throw your hands in the air and say "Oh, well it's going to happen anyway--it's in the genes," or do you try to do everything humanly possible to PREVENT it?
 
While we're on the Purina subject, my mom (who won't shop anywhere but the grocery for pet food) is now going to switch her cat's food because her vet (who is not a holistic vet by any means) told her that in his opinion Purina Cat Chow is about the worst cat food out there.  He said just about anything she could give would be better.

ORIGINAL: sandra_slayton

I talked to Purina and asked questions about statments that  actually come from several different threads here.  I asked questions and this is what I was told.  They use only USDA inspected meat, and it is the same quality humans eat.  They do not use road kill, diseased animals, euthanized cats and dogs.  They do not use old resturant grease in their food.  Their by products is parts that most humans (but not all) do not eat, like liver, brains, all kinds of internal organs.  (much more simple to just list by products than to name every single organ or piece used, and it can vary from batch as to amount of this, that or the other, but all have high nutritional value)   They do not use moldy, sour grain.

They are watched and monitered by "watch dogs" USDA and FDA, not only on fed. level but also state level.  And of course quality control people.

I am sure some  who do not like Purina will say that is just Purina talking and you can't believe it.  My attitude on that is if you can believe what the makers of your dog food say, why shouldn't i believe what the makers of my dog food say.  And on the other hand maybe NONE are telling the exact truth.  I just know my dogs do great on what they eat so h ave no problem with it.

Any food that uses "animal digest" risks having those very same elements in the food. Purina does not add roadkill, but if purina adds animal digest , the digest has road kill, restaruant grease, expired meats, etc. Regarding euthanized animals - this would depend on the plant form which they receive their animal digest.

Paula

Hmm so would that mean that Special Kitty or Dad's is better then Purina cat chow?
 
The only points Sandra and I have made is that we have tried Premium foods for our dogs and they get sick on them.  Purina One is better then the other Purinas...just as each premium brand has their better and best and low quality.
I will not feed premium food if it makes my dog sick.
Obviously if I could find something that was better and worth the money that he could eat and not get sick then I would use it.  I can only do the best I can with my own dog...I will not feel bad nor be knocked down for what I feed.  I honestly wonder how many people on here feed lesser food and won't admit it because of the battles that occur if they do.
On paper the premiums are better nutrionally but if it makes your dog sick at what point do you decide to go to what you know works or do you continue to make the dog suffer because the food is better?
My god Harley came to me and was on Beneful...I came to this forum and read up on feeding and tried the premium brands and when they didn't work I went to the second highest brand that Purina makes.  I am considering trying Pro Plan next.  I will feed the better or best of what Purina has because my dog processes Purina products well thus far.  I have noticed a big change in overall appearance and health on Harley since he has been on Purina One in comparision to Beneful.

ORIGINAL: Firestorm

Hmm so would that mean that Special Kitty or Dad's is better then Purina cat chow?

 
I don't know, my cats don't eat any of those.  However, that is what he told my stepdad.  He even wrote it out--Purina Cat Chow with a big "X" over it.....

After seeing so many skinny emanciated dogs on TV shows and shelters here... I'm just happy people feed their dogs, so I don't judge what they feed. If they ask for my opinion, I'll tell them, otherwise, it is none of my business.

I fed my cat, Pippi, Purina cat food her entire life.  She died last srping at age 17.  Her ONLY trips to the vet, ever, was to be spayed and for her vax, and several years i stopped getting her anything except rabies, and would have not given her that had she not had to be put outside when she was 3 years old because she refused to use the litter box anymore. I never looked at the ingredients on the bag--just started her on Purina because my dogs had always been o it.  I did however, give her fresh caught & baked fish or canned fish (only a little) with her dry food, and later also strarted giving her some of the meats i cooked for my dogs--chicken livers being her favorite. 
 
But point is, she was never sick one time in her 17 years.  The picture is of my youngest granddaugher and Pippi taken only a week before pippi died.  Believe it or not the old girl lovd to be carried around by the grandkids and would purr the entire time, never scratched, bit, struggled to get away, and when put down, wold stay right with them.  She was a cat in a million.

Nice picture Sandra!

Sandra - what a beautiful picture of both your granddaughter and Pippi.  Pippi sounds like a wonderul cat and I'm sure you miss her dearly.

I may have a naive attitude to this but when i see a dog with disease,any disease,from arthritis to cancer,my first thought is food,what is the owner feeding the dog?? Especially when you see dogs as young as 2 years old getting cancer.

 
Its weird how we all think, because I feel exactly the same way but about vaccinations and toxic preventatives!  HONEST!!!  I think food helps to make a pet healthier but I don't believe some of them can overcome the toxins we put in their bodies!