Dog Community

Eagle Pack question

Posted : 10/24/2006 5:16:52 PM

Does anyone know the feeding recommendation for the EP Holistic Duck and Oatmeal? I have a 7 month old pup that weighs 41 lbs. I can't find it on their
website and i threw out the bag.
He's been on the EP for about 8 days not incl transition time. His poops are the firmest they have ever been and i love that. The reason i ask, i was feeding him about 3 cups a day. One cup 3 x day. Well a couple days ago i fed him and about 30min later my neighbor's dog came over to play (unplanned) I never feed him before exercise or play, always after. Anyway, he threw up from playing and running so soon after eating. I was amazed at the amount he puked up. It was whole or undigested kibble but just big from expanding. I thought i should cut back how much i feed him at once. So now i am feeding him 2/3 c for am and pm feeding then 1/2 c for lunch. He seems hungry and goes to his food bowl often so i think he/s still hungry.
Sorry for the ramble...that was kinda long for a simple question.

Jo

kennel_keeper

Posted : 10/24/2006 5:46:29 PM

I did some calculations based on your pup's weight, age, and average activity level and based on this information, your pup needs approximately 1411 kcals/day.

With the EP Duck and Oatmeal being 363 kcals per cup (average 4oz measure), this would calculate at 3.9 cups per day. So, you could feed him a bit more in the am and pm, but I would probably keep his lunch meal small or even just a snack type thing.
I can check the bag when I get to work tomorrow, but they are averages.

cc431

Posted : 10/28/2006 8:46:10 PM

ORIGINAL: jode88

Anyway, he threw up from playing and running so soon after eating. I was amazed at the amount he puked up. It was whole or undigested kibble but just big from expanding. I thought i should cut back how much i feed him at once... He seems hungry and goes to his food bowl often so i think he/s still hungry.

My feed maker asserts expandable fibers can be dangerous...pressure in the stomach that can push up against blood vessels and such. Innocent numbers like 3-5% fiber content translates into something considerable higher than what the labeling would lead one to believe. The controversial beet pulp ingredient combined with other fibers can expand as much as 250%. Goes to his bowl often...often seems hungry, sounds to me like he's not enough bang out of the EP. If you wish to continue with EP, you may want to upgrade and try one of their performance formulas. You may want to consider soaking the kibble prior to serving so it goes through expansion before hitting the stomach. Throw out any uneaten rations (sounds like there won't be any) because the water will make it go bad quick if it sits.

papillon806

Posted : 10/28/2006 8:59:54 PM

I too would recommend soaking the kibble in water before feeding....that way it expands before they ingest it.

jode88

Posted : 10/28/2006 9:29:44 PM

Thank you all for your replies. Ive been mixing with canned for brkfst and dinner
then i feed him dry for lunch/snack. Ive started giving him smaller meals but now
more frequently (4xday). I will try adding water to the dry. He hasnt thrown up since that day but i will continue to try your suggestions to prevent it from happening again. Thanks a bunch.

Jo

Shohin

Posted : 10/29/2006 10:26:28 AM

ORIGINAL: kennel_keeper

I did some calculations based on your pup's weight, age, and average activity level and based on this information, your pup needs approximately 1411 kcals/day.

With the EP Duck and Oatmeal being 363 kcals per cup (average 4oz measure), this would calculate at 3.9 cups per day. So, you could feed him a bit more in the am and pm, but I would probably keep his lunch meal small or even just a snack type thing.
I can check the bag when I get to work tomorrow, but they are averages.

Care to share your formula?

kennel_keeper

Posted : 10/29/2006 2:05:01 PM

Shohin, I sent you a PM [

]

dyan

Posted : 10/29/2006 7:11:22 PM

I too would recommend soaking the kibble in water before feeding....that way it expands before they ingest it.

I don't know about soaking kibble. I would add water,,but I would not soak it. In a grain bases food it could cause fermenting.

dogslyfe

Posted : 10/30/2006 10:15:23 AM

FWIW, when I fed the EP Duck to my oldest BC I was having to feed her a good 3+ cups to keep her from losing weight. It wasn't nearly enough bang for her buck, and she didn't appear to be using very much of the food. Don't get me wrong, I like EP - but it wasn't dense enough for her.

My Pap, however, does great on it!!

papillon806

Posted : 10/30/2006 10:25:12 AM

By soaking I didn't mean let it sit for hours...it would take several hours for fermenting to occur.

glenmar

Posted : 10/30/2006 10:30:01 AM

John from EP sent me a couple for EP Holistic. We had to hunt all over creation to find it and I tried it only on Thor. The kcals weren't on the bag but knowing that Innova has probably the highest kcals I fed him roughly the same amount and then did increase when I knew the kcal per cup ratio. Even before I increased he had HUGE, sloppy poop.

That was my one and only experience with any of the EP line. I won't say it is not a good food, but it didn't work for my dog. And around here, the only place that sells any EP is really a nasty dirty feed store with mice running all over the place. When I go to pay for something and find mice turds on the counter.....just bothers me to buy my dogs food from a place like that.

jode88

Posted : 10/30/2006 8:20:10 PM

Thank you all for your posts. I took Sampson in to get neutered a couple days
ago and he's lost 2 lbs since i last weighed him about 3 weeks before. I dont think he should be losing weight being a growing puppy so that leads me to believe he needs a higher calorie food. We are going to try the Cal Natural or the Natural Balance, he loves them both.
The soaking kibble in water for a few minutes makes it a whole new meal. He loves it. I switched to the EP cuz the Chicken soup wasnt firming his stools enough and he continued to scratch his hips and back legs. The EP has done wonders for his poop. I mean wonders!! He is still itchy though but not too terribly bad, only in the mornings.

Edie

Posted : 11/18/2006 8:08:46 PM

By soaking I didn't mean let it sit for hours...it would take several hours for fermenting to occur.

Could someone please exaplin this fermenting thing further? How would you know it's fermented? Does anyone have any links where i can read about this?

It's just, a breeder i know soaks her kibble and then lets it sit in the fridge for 24 hours(she makes a batch that'll last 24 hours for the pups),others i know soak their puppies kibble for hours too.I've never understood this,but i also never thought there would be any danger in doing it.

jessies_mom

Posted : 11/18/2006 8:53:23 PM

The EP has done wonders for his poop. I mean wonders!! He is still itchy though but not too terribly bad, only in the mornings.

It does the same for Jessie; before EP we hardly ever saw small firm stools they were very soft and hard to clean up. By the way, the EP Holistic Duck is not recommended for puppies; just for adult dogs. The only holistic formula recommended for puppies besides the large and giant breed puppy formula is the Chicken; [linkhttp://www.eaglepack.com/Pages/HS_Chicken.html]http://www.eaglepack.com/Pages/HS_Chicken.html[/link] . The holistic formulas are 40% meat meal so your pup is getting a lot of good meat protein. They make an excellent puppy formula if you're interested in trying it; [linkhttp://www.eaglepack.com/Pages/SP_SMPuppy.html]http://www.eaglepack.com/Pages/SP_SMPuppy.html[/link].

fuzzy_dogs_mom

Posted : 11/18/2006 10:05:04 PM

I don't know if there's much difference between the EP Holistic duck w/oatmeal and the chicken w/rice that Max eats, but he's 61 lbs. and he eats between 1-1/2 and 2 cups a day. His weight is stable, his poops are small and firm and he's not a terribly active dog. When he's not out for a walk or at the dog park, he's pretty content to be a couch potato. I give him 1-1/2 c. in the a.m. and usually he just grazes throughout the day.

Joyce