I know this will gove over like a lead balloon

Come to think of it, I think you're onto something... that could have very well been the 'TheDoc' I am got them mixed up!  Thanks Sooner...Charlie

ORIGINAL: sillysally

ORIGINAL: sandra_slayton

I think it is the thought of our dogs eating other dogs and cats.  They are our pets and live in the house with us and we dote on them.  We eat cows and don't give it a second thought, and if you are not a horse lover, you wouldn't really think much about that it.   This is from the stand point of the meat, not drugs. 

The fact that there may be horse meat in a food does not bother me as much as what is IN the horse meat.  A horse that has been euthed may have any number of substances in his system--if he has been in constant pain before death he may have been on high doses of bute for months, a horse that died of infection my have had any number of antibiotics in his system in addition to the bute, a horse that suffered a traumatic injury before death likely has some sort of tranq in his system, a horse that died of colic will almost ALWAYS have been given Banamine.  This does not even count any daily dewormers that might have been given as a habit.  The only way the rendering company would know that is if they asked, and as I've had to call the renderer before I can tell you that they do not.

Oh, come on Christina, tell your horror stories.[]

According to another statement by Dvet, there wasn't a specific nutrition elective. The nutrition was taught along with diganosis, i.e., nutritional responses to ailments, nutritional reasons for ailments, etc. That is, it was part and parcel in the whole education, not just a single class. BTW, the common rumor is that vets receive 3 weeks of nutrition education. Even in a stand alone class, 3 weeks is actually a semester. That 3 weeks is the actual in-class time, which may be 1 to 3 hours, twice or three times a week, for a semester, with plenty of homework and a few textbooks to get through. The actual study of it, of course, extends beyond the alloted class time. And yes, Dvet, learned this stuff before most people here were even born. I don't think it's necessarily outdated. I'm sure he's seen the entire gamut, including raw, grocery store, "mid-grade", etc. Dogs fed with "human" food, dogs who have never had "human" food.
 
He realized his op would cause controversy even though the quote is from a modern vet source. He knew some people wouldn't be happy with it, regardless if he said it with his "outdated" knowledge or some modern vet said it and realized that some might think he was "stirring the pot".
 
That being said, I'm not going to change from Nutro to a cheaper brand just because of the findings. I can take his advice and findings and apply them, if needs be, to what I feed. I think, too, that some may have felt hurt when he suggested they might be overpaying for these newer "premium" foods. To that point, as I have already stated, I will buy what works for my dog regardless of the cost, as would most of us. It just so happens that Shadow does well on a "mid-grade" that averages 77 to 88 cents per pound. Call it the luck of the Irish.
 

Well, I pretty much accused dvet of being a fraud but a simple case of getting the docs mixed.  Sorry Doc, I kinda feel bad.
 
 

Ron2 I like your statements and philosphy...feeding is like spaying time,  Whatever works for you and your pet you do...I have not seen anything on the nutrition site that I think is harmfull to the pet...A lot of it I think is unecesary  but the owner is happy and the dog is healthy and that is what is most important...wether I think people are over paying is just my somewhat ridiculous opinion....again what ever works best and does no harm you work with and use and keep useing untill you find it might not be doing the job so you try something better.......keep you pet healthy and happy and ignore me----now thats a good philosphy, I think

Dvet, you echo pretty much what many veterinary nutrionists say, there are about 25 ACVN's in the world that specialize in canine and feline nutrition, the site below is run by 3 of them.
 
[linkhttp://www.petdiets.com]http://www.petdiets.com[/link]
 

if I ever got around to writine my masters thesis (nutrition of the cow) i could be an authority too but I got accepted to vet school after my masteres work...no longerworh it...but will chech the site you sent...thanks

Well, some may call me silly, but as much info and opinion as I may get from a forum of people, though well-intentioned, are not CVNs (certified vetrinary nutritionists), I will still ay my hard-earned $25 to my vet, who has been practicing for about as long as I have been alive. Experience counts, education counts, the two together count. But I value the scientific point your post makes. It is echoed elsewhere, from other vet sources who have nothing to gain and no economic ties with a food company, that the best food for your dog is not always the most expensive, nor, in my opinion, the one that looks good enough for a human to eat.
 
And I do agree with you that people will continue to do what they do, even if they might be overspending, in someone else's opinion, because that is where there comfort zone is.
 
In the end, most of us live by the same credo, if it works, do it.
I also tend to follow the ancient engineering principle. If it works, don't fix it. Plus, vets and the like have made it their career to care for animals and they can't all be wrong. It's a mathematical impossibility.
 

Abbysdad, looks like only one doctor on that site you referred.

I dont see any difference in there being euth'ed dogs and cats in food or euth'ed cattle and horses. Either way, it's wrong.

 
Actually there is a significant difference.  Cattle & horses are natually prey animals and a relatively safe kind of protien for a carnivore to ingest.  Animals ingesting their own kind over the long-term is the suspected source of several prionic diseases such as:
 
- BSE (Mad Cow)
- Scrapie (found in sheep)
 
Both suspected to have come into existance from the practise of adding bone/meat meal in to their feed.
 
I don't agree with the small amounts of euthanizing drug going into the food chain, but there is still a big difference between dogs/cats vs. cows/horses being incorporated into the food.

This is not super-relevant because it was raw horsemeat not cooked - but feeding horsemeat to dogs has been implicated in vectoring the dog flu mutation that has popped up recently.

I know my dog won't get dog flu from eating kibble with horsemeat in it, but horses to me are in a seperate class from cattle and sheep when it comes to feeding them to dogs. I'm NOT cool with the idea of euthanized horses ending up in my dogmeat. Especially unidentified. There's a whole bunch of scary stuff I cannot use on my sheep that are OK for use in horses. And when they go into the food chain I have to sign a thingie that declares that I've followed all the withdrawal guidelines for pharmaceuticals. Sure I could lie, but even that small safety factor is absent when a euthanized horse is disposed of. Not to mention dogs and cats. Blech.