"Raw Meat: A Dangerous Fad"

canned, unsalted green beans and carrots slices

I'm wondering why you would bother feeding your dogs canned vegetables when it's a well known fact that canned vegetables retain almost NONE of their nutritional value. Even COOKED veggies lose their most important nutritional benefits. The whole point of feeding animals veggies RAW is so that they get the minerals, vitamins, amino acids , phytonutrients and antioxidants from them.  You're pretty much defeating the purpose.

ORIGINAL: kennel_keeper

 
The benefits that he gets from the bones (cleaner teeth, fresh breath, exercises jaws, plus all the nutrients found in bones..calcium, roteins, collagen, etc) makes it worth it, plus I don't have to take him to the vet to get his teeth cleaned oh and get ut under heavy anesthesia.  But it all comes down to whatever works for the individual. 


I found this interesting [linkhttp://www.thepetcenter.com/xra/bonecomp.html]www.thepetcenter.com/xra/bonecomp.html[/link]


 
 What the article fails to mention is that  the hydrogen level normally found in a dog's stomach is higher than a human's therefore they are able to digest bones far easily.  Is true dogs get constipated from bones if giving in large quantites, and some have choked and died from eating them, maybe too eagerly therefore not chewing them down enough, maybe unsupervised, I don't know this  is a personal preference.  Bones work for my dog. What I have also learned by being a medicine student is that nothing is 100 % bad or good and what will work for one individual is not going to work for another.

  Dogs can have problems from raw bones ;  [linkhttp://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/bones.html]http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/bones.html[/link]
 The first case discussed is a dog who ate raw bones. You really should read the link that kennel_keeper has also. There is very little nutritional value in bones. I don't have any problem at all brushing Jessie's teeth, and the same company that makes Kong Balls makes a Kong Dental Stick.  I rub some canned food on it and it does a good job of cleaning Jessie's teeth while she chews it.
 
           

With all due respect, not all cooking methods are created equal when it comes to nutrient retention. Not to mention, dogs need some processing (whether it be cooking, pulverizing or grinding) in order to efficently utilize available nutrients in veggies. Some veggies lend very well to cooking (depending on the method) with little nutrient loss, while others are very sensitive to the slighest heat.
Other factors associated with nutrient loss are proper storage. Some veggies lose nutrients quicker than others once picked and if stored improperly, even greater losses can occur.
 
[linkhttp://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/food_processing_and_nutrition?opendocument]http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/food_processing_and_nutrition?opendocument[/link]
 
[linkhttp://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=61]http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=61[/link]
 
 

Kennelkeeper, YES, I posted that link previously in this thread and no one bothered to look. [sm=sad.gif]

Okay, none of my goldens like raw veggies and won't eat them.  The irish Setter I lost to bone cancer at age 12 1/2 9 years ago preferred tomatoes, lettuce, melon, raw squash to meat.  He would empty my garden.
 
I do know some nutrients are lost from cooking veggies (and meat), but not as much as you said  If that was so, most people would be in bad shape.  I don't know a single person that eats only raw veggies, and i know a lot that will not eat salads, etc, and seem to only eat corn, green beas, and peas...their loss as salads are great, and there are a lot of very good veggies to eat.
 
I use the green beans and carrots--which i do know has vitamins, etc in them-- because my dogs like them, I know they are good for my goldens, and they do not have a lot of calories.  They are getting a filling food that provides nutrients for them without the fat.
 
I have no problem with anyone wanting to feed raw.  I just can't do it.  I have no problem with anyone wanting to sky dive--I just can't do it  I have no problem with anyone being a race car driver--but I can't do it.  So each person should do what they feel is right for their dogs (and them.)  And as far as i cam concerned, there is no ONE way that can be declared the only RIGHT  way.  Raw, home cooked, kibble only, kibble with canned, kibble with home cooked.    What works best for you and your dog is the way to go.

Jeano,
 
I am sorry, I didn't look either, but found it on my own. GMTA I guess [] Sorry for being a copy cat.
 
Sandra, you said a mouth full (literally, lol)!!!!

One other thing I have wondered about.  Everyone talks about watching the dog close when chewing on bones (or even rawhides, etc) to prevent them swalling a chunk.  With mine, I would probably have to have my hand already in their mouth to prevent them from swallowing something.  Question, how do you know, without ever taking your eyes off the bone, that he hasn't broken a chunk off?    Al;so, are you sitting right there one foot away so you can immediatly get it out of his mouth before swallowing it?   I stopped giving mine rawhides after KayCee got one soft and tried to swallow it and hacked it up-- this happened 2 or 3 times.  And with all that about Greenies, they are out of the  picture as well.  I  really would like to have them chew on something, but I am paranoid about them getting a piece of bone puncture them tummies after seeing that lab pup.   Oh, I do not know if it was cooked or not, just that it was a pork chop bone.  I suspect it was cooked, but some people do buy ones with bones and then cut the bones out  before cooking because they are cheaper.

I don't know a single person that eats only raw veggies,

I'm slowly going that way, phasing out grains, cooked foods, and dairy products little by little. I typically eat at least one meal a day of only raw stuff, and try to include something raw in each meal. My hair and skin are getting really nice, and I feel so good after a raw meal.

Everyone talks about watching the dog close when chewing on bones (or even rawhides, etc) to prevent them swalling a chunk. With mine, I would probably have to have my hand already in their mouth to prevent them from swallowing something.

I'd have to grind everything that goes into their mouths into a fine powder, to keep mine from swallowing chunks. Dogs don't chew. They bite off peices and swallow. This is all their dentition and anatomy allow. Their GI tracts make up for this, by being highly acidic.

Thank you for welcoming me. I hope I have not sounded too pushy and not for a lack of a better word either. I tried to post a couple of pictures; however was only succesful with one. Is a picture of Romeo at the park after having gotten shaved for the summer last year. I will try again.

Not at all! We get crazy around here, sometimes. Vicious, even[] Once the dust settles, everybody gets along, again. Sometimes, somebody leaves. Other times, not. The circle of life, and all....

I'm able to see your photo by clicking on the attachment. Romeo is such a cute little boy!!!! Next to "Click here to upload!",  there's a box that says, "Embed picture in post". You'll need to click on that for your photos to show up, under your text.

I don't believe that anyone could prevent a perforation short of not giving bones at all. Supervising a dog with a bone is critical when it comes to choking and can help if they start breaking pieces off, BUT, unless you keep your eyes peeled on your dog the ENTIRE time it is knawing on the bone you may not SEE if he gets a piece of bone off until it's too late. Once it's swallowed all you can do is pray.
I do let my little chihuahua's chew short ribs with the bone, but they don't get chicken bones at all. My beagles get deer femurs and ribs only. These would be considered rec bones, as they can't consume them (with the exception of the deer ribs).
 

You get to know your dogs chewing "prowess" after a while and then you dont need to watch them so much like a hawk. Like i've said before emma swallows chicken necks whole,i've not seen any bone chards in her poop and she's never had any other problems with doing it! Bonnie will swallow the last chunk of an ox tail bone whole,so when i see her getting to the end of the ox tail i'll take it away,as the chunks are very solid and rather large.I dont watch her every move while she's got one as i know how long it will take her to reach the end.You really have to be very intune with your dog and get to know what you can and cant give,what you need to watch closely and what you can give with no worries.There are plenty of bones i can give the girls without constant supervision,altho i'm always around the house somewhere when they've got a bone.I'll never give them a bone and then leave the house,as there is always that "just incase" factor,thankfully i've never experienced it!

I'll never give them a bone and then leave the house,as there is always that "just incase" factor,thankfully i've never experienced it!

Of course! But that goes with anything...

I can't tell you how many times Emma has choked on kibble. Thankfully, she's never required intervention. She always choked it up, and continued eating.

Teenie choked on meat, with no bone in it, and without intervention, she may have suffocated.

Emma bites huge hunks off of marrow bones, and has shredded a red Kong. I wouldn't put it past any dog to bite of peices of toys or bones,  or even choke on bedding that they've shredded. I can't tell you how many tennis ball bits I dragged out of the back of this kid's mouth before I gave up and threw away every tennis ball in the house. She's rotten, and ridiculously strong. It's insane.

I wouldn't risk it with any dog. I leave mine with bedding, but that's it. They don't get food, toys, or anything else while I'm not here. They get a small treat, when I put them up, but they finish it before I get out the door.

I must add i have been extremely lucky with all of my dogs when it comes to bone chewing, i've never really had any gulpers and the couple that have gulped i have managed to re-train to chew properly. i know there are dogs out there that will gulp no matter what, and i honestly don't know what i would do if i had a dog like that. So i do understand some peoples trepidation regarding bones, If you have a gulper i imagine it would be very scary. Everything i say is by mines and my dogs experiences. All i can say is what has worked for them and me.