Kibble/Bloat Question, Please help

I agree that stress + genetics is the number one reason for a dog to bloat.  I've know people with Newf's who have done everything to a T and still had their Newf's bloat...one bloated had one side stapled then bloated and flipped the other way.  The dog's problem was stress related.

My Rottweiler Athena started bloating when I moved into my new house.  She does not deal with change as well as the Newf's and DobeX.   What I did was switch to a grain free kibble (Raw Instinct by Nature's Variety & EVO by Natura).  I ALWAYS add 1/2 canned EVO or Nature's variety, tripe, sardines whatever to her kibble food.  I like the convience of kibble, but, I know that it's not natural[]. 

She was bloating mainly at night (she never got as far as torsion).  So, I started feeding her a raw meal at night with raw meat, lain organic yogurt, fish body oil, vit E, and some steamed veggies blended with a raw egg-no grains.  The raw meal in the evening solved the problem and she has never bloated again.  My Holistic Vet explained it's rare a dog would bloat on raw meat.  I started looking at causes for her stress, we had built a huge compound with a nice large kennel which cost big bucks...we "thought" it was great to put the dogs out when we went to work.  That was one reason behind Athena getting stressed...she didn't like being out there.  Meal times should be stress free, I also found that elavating her dish helped her as well.  I put her in a corner so she doesn't have to look at the other dogs.

I also have a homeopathic pellets on hand called Nux Vomica 30C.  As soon as I noticed her drooling and pacing I would give her 5 pellets.  This worked wonderfully.

We have owned bloat prone breeds for almost 40 years now.  We never had a problem until my Rottie.  But, we started implimenting the same feeding program for the Newf's and Beau as well...raw meal at night and kibble mixed with 1/2 canned etc in the morning-no grains.  When I serve the kibble I never let the kibble sit there and soak in water, I just add semi warm water to the kibble, mix in the canned and supplements and serve immediately.  I give Athena 1/2 cup of  Raw Instinct and 1/2 cup of canned and 1 cup of water....then I mix her supplements in.  I make her kibble meal look as gooey as possible with plenty of water.

My dogs drink normal amounts of water.  I always have water available to them at all times.  They never drink huge amounts at one time.  They get lots water in their meals, which is what you want.[]  Now, if I were feeding dry kibble then they would be slurping tons of water after a meal...another reason I don't feed dry.

I love Newfies.  I knew they could be either black or dark brown, but not until the Westminster show a few years back did I know they could also be black and white!  Now, one of the ladies on one of my golden retriever boards raises newfs, but also has a golden, and hers are the black and white ones.

Sandra, yes the black and white Newf's are called Landseer[]  I have many friends who breed and show Newf's...and the lady I work for at her kennel gave all our current Newf's to my Sister.  She gave them to Heather when she finished their championship titles and wanted them close for breeding purposes.  I keep telling my Sister to make friends with eople who breed short coated dogs...not big coated dogs lol.
 
In Canada you can only show Landseer and Black Newfoundlands.  The brown and grey Newf's are automatically disqualified and cannot be shown up here...yet.  In the States they can show brown, grey, black and Landseer.  Most people do not breed the Landseer as they are so hard to get correct pattern on.
 
Sorry to hijack the thread[]     

ORIGINAL: glenmar
Billy, I've heard DEEP chested but not BROAD chested breeds.

 
I misspoke.  Odie is deep chested, not broad chested.

ORIGINAL: Cally01

Sorry to hijack the thread[]     

 
As you should be.  That is a first, for this board.  []

SO I haven't read all the danelady links but I am a little confused about something. . . .Greyhounds are one of the breeds that they say is "prone to bloat" and every greyhound book mentions it. The one thing they always say for its prevention in every greyhound article I have read is to limit exercise for about an hour before and an hour after eating (time amounts vary depending on the source), but I don't see any info on these links or in these threads about exercise being a contributing factor. . . .
so I guess my question is "is that outdated thinking" ???   
 

I've always wondered about that advice-- dogs seem to hold food in their stomachs for 8 to 12 hours after eating, so what good does making the dog be quiet for an hour after eating do? That said, I do try to exercise the dogs and let them cool off  a bit before meals, then they usually nap afterwards.

I haven't read the GDL site for a while since I read it so many times before..but she used to always say watch how much you let your dog exercise/run before AND after meals.
 
I know personally, two German Shepherds that died from bloat in the past year.  I was not aware before hearing this that they were prone to bloat. Now I realize any dog can!
 
About bloat running in family,,,I believe that is true.. mainly because traits run in families...so if one dog has certain traits such as nervousness and excitability,,,their offsring might too. When I got Bubblegum, her breeder said "and I never had a Dane bloat on me!"  Her Danes were almost always from the same family.   Incidentally she feeds Diamond kibble!

haven't read the GDL site for a while since I read it so many times before..but she used to always say watch how much you let your dog exercise/run before AND after meals.

 
I know someone who got a dane from Gentle Giants rescue about 8 months ago  and they were told to not exercise him before or after feeding so I know that that advice is still being given in some places.
 
Also, I have NEVER heard on any greyhound website or book anything about wetting (or soaking) the food so this one is new to me.  I have aways heard "raise the food bowl" OR "raising doesn't make a difference regarding bloat"  and I have heard "careful about exercising them right before or after eating."
 
Lori- unless Willow gulps water after eating, I would leave her food bowl out. . . but that is just my opinion.    
 

This is just *my understanding* about a couple of the bloat myths

Citric acid and elevated dishes
These conclusions came from a bloat study done at Purdue, where almost all the dogs were fed from elevated dishes and were fed kibble containing citric acid. That skewed the results to make people believe those things cause bloat, when in fact, there was not 'control group' fed otherwise.

A food shouldn't contain fat in the first few ingredients
Well, that doesn't even make sense. Since ingredients are listed by weight, a food with fat as the third ingredient could actually have the same amount of fat as a food with is as the fifth ingredient.

The GDL 'Soap Box' article is interesting.

My only personal experience with bloat was my grandpa's Irish Setter. They got up one morning, went out, came in, ate, laid around, GP read the paper, then they went out again, the dog chased a squirrel, bloated and died. [] No stress involved, and probably well over an hour after eating...

I was impressed to see that Innova doesn't swell up with water, no matter how long it sits.

 
Hummm..... have they recently changed their formula?
We (the kennel I work for) recently started selling Innova and use the Small Bites for the "fussy" and "picky" eaters that we board. Sometimes we will add a small amount of water to the kibble and what they don't eat did swell up about 2 - 3 times it's dry size. Maybe it's just the "Small Bites"

Irish setters have apparently been dying like flies from bloat-- almost certainly a genetic problem.
 

Cally, Aren't you forgetting part of the Newf's anti-bloat, after meal routine? []  I do think there may be something to the dog's individual ability to *expel* gas, in addition to producing excessive amounts.

Perhaps it IS just the smaller kibbles.  I've paid particular attention to it since I hear so much about kibble "swelling up in the belly".  I have some soaking now just for curiosity sake.  Will see how long it can sit in the water without swelling......

labcrab, lol, I wasn't going to mention that on a new board as people may think we are crazy[]...but, yes, my Sister burps her Newf's after meals.  She always gets a belch out of them. lol
 
Perhaps this should be implimented into an anti bloat routine for prone breeds.  My Sister can make a video to demonstrate. lol