Dried Egg Product, Veggie and Animal Protiens

Ya, I'm a bit of cynic.

 
   I am too when it comes to the ingredients listed on a bag of dog food. That being said, Eagle Pack said they use the "complete whole egg" and I have no problem believing that. The eggs were probably  dehydrated so they could be mixed into the kibble better but the source of the "dried egg product" was whole eggs.

Here's my problem, I always suspect definitions that use the word being defined. Eg. Egg product is a product of eggs. So what is the nature of this product that it is not called simply egg? To parse it, by this definition as a product of egg it must be some egg derivative, some fraction or aspect of egg...... so I'm going to stick to my distinction that I'd rather pay for "egg" vs. "egg product". 

 
I'm not 100% sure but I think, if I am understanding Mordanna's description correctly, what is meant by egg "product" is it's a product (or by-product) of the commercial egg packaging industry. So that means they're using whatever the egg factory sends over, which means egg yolks and whites and shells in varying (not consistent) amounts, but also may mean there are some feathers and chicken turds and what have you in there.
 
Of course, whole eggs are preferable to that, but if I had a food that had mostly really good ingredients except for that pesky egg product - well, I'd probably still use it. That said, I currently use Innova.

So that means they're using whatever the egg factory sends over, which means egg yolks and whites and shells in varying (not consistent) amounts, but also may mean there are some feathers and chicken turds and what have you in there.

 
YIKES! Why do you think there is feathers and chicken turds on eggs from the egg factory?  I have read that the reason eggs from the grocery store are not really safe is because eggs have a natural barrier on them that protects them from disease,,,and that grocery store eggs are washed and that barrier is washed off. YET the eggs that I buy from the farm don't have feathers and turds on them.

Here's my problem, I always suspect definitions that use the word being defined. Eg. Egg product is a product of eggs. So what is the nature of this product that it is not called simply egg? To parse it, by this definition as a product of egg it must be some egg derivative, some fraction or aspect of egg...... so I'm going to stick to my distinction that I'd rather pay for "egg" vs. "egg product". 

Ya, I'm a bit of  cynic.

 
Yeah,,,me too..but I'm like Janice...I tend to trust Eagle Pack when they say they use whole eggs.
I dunno...but trying to find out!

Of course, whole eggs are preferable to that, but if I had a food that had mostly really good ingredients except for that pesky egg product - well, I'd probably still use it. That said, I currently use Innova.

I agree. At the moment I too am using Innova as Amrika the young Ambull/Pit is playing the meat off of my other dogs.

Paula

[linkhttp://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Egg_Products_and_Food_Safety/index.asp]Egg product[/link] is widely used in the human foodservice industry. Assuming this is the same 'egg product' that is used in feed, I'd think that - like most ingredients that are shared between human and animal - the product used in feed is what is unfit for humans.

like most ingredients that are shared between human and animal - the product used in feed is what is unfit for humans.

Perhaps....except again, Eagle Pack says:
 

but our egg is whole, human grade egg.

Here's my ditch-digging, shakespeare-quoting, non-expert understanding of the differences between animal protein and vegetable or grain protein.
 
Meat is, (oversimplified) protein and cellulose. Cellulose is fiber and passes through. Protein is amino acid chains and, in meat, is accompanied by nitrogen. Excess or unneeded nitrogen is filtered out by the kidneys and passes through in the urine. Plant protein is not accompanied by nitrogen and is referred to as NFE (nitrogen free extract). In a dog food, they find the amount of animal protein by doing a nitrogen count and multiply by a conversion factor. In plant matter, there are other elements, such as minerals and carbohydrates. A digestive system processes the nutrients at a certain rate. So, the system must get the required nutrition out of the food in a certain time period before it passes on. Meat will get the protein in quicker because it has less "other" ingredients competing for entry into the system. But some of the "other" nutrients are necessary for the health of the dog. Here is where, I think and someone may correct me, ash comes into play. Ash is just that, the "burned up" residue of mineral leftover after burning meat. In the cooking process, there will be "ash", or mineral residue. Dogs have no use for burnt minerals. So, that is also in the system taking up space. In some dogs, it may be interfering with nutrient absorption. In a cat, an obligate carnivore, this can become crucial.
 
It is noteworthy, IMO, that all ingredients are ground fine before being used in a kibble recipe. Then cooked at a low temperature in the extrusion process. Both the grinding and the heat in a low cooking render the ingredients, especially the plant matter, more digestible and usable by the animal.
 
So, if a kibble has meat for the first ingredient, and considering that the necessary fat can only be added at the end, due to process interference if it were added earlier, the dog would then get it's crucial load of protein and fat up front, with the other ingredients coming along as they can to round out the nutritional profile, as necessary. IMHO, nutrient absorption is similar to fluid dynamics. Fluid flows in the path of least resistance, much as heat will flow to cold. So, kibbles in the stomach the protein and fat first will get absorbed first and the others as the can be before the GIT moves everything along.

HHHHmmmmmm Ron,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,   that all sounds pretty good to me!
I would never argue those points....lol!

Meat is, (oversimplified) protein and cellulose. Cellulose is fiber and passes through.

 
Actually, animal products have no cellulose. Cellulose is almost exclusively found in plants (I thought it was exclusively, but I looked it up to make sure, and there's a sea creature, the tunicate, which creates and uses cellulose).
 

Ash is just that, the "burned up" residue of mineral leftover after burning meat.

 
Ash is actually the total mineral content of the food, including calcium, phosphorous, etc., that the animals need.
 
Other than that, I don't know enough about this subject to correct or argue with anything else. []

Plant protein is not accompanied by nitrogen and is referred to as NFE (nitrogen free extract)

Do not forget that some plant sources contain NPN (non-protein nitrogens) which can do the same thing as the nitrogen in the meat. [] So there is a "form" of nitrogen found in plant matter.

Meat is, (oversimplified) protein and cellulose.

Also, chelsea_b is correct; there is no cellulose in meat.

Ummm....ash is referring to minerals such as magnesium.

Paula

uote:

BUT if its true as Eagle Pack says on their brochure,,,the AAFCO makes them use the term dried egg product....so they must not be allowed to call it an egg!

I've seen several pet foods that just says "eggs" or "whole eggs" or "chicken eggs" in their ingredients list. How come they're allowed to say it and EP's not? Something's fishy here...

Editted to state specific brands. Nature's Variety, Innova, Lotus (local chain store's brand, but still), Blue Buffalo, and many more. Those are just the ones I found just now.

 
Okay, wanted to find out what is fishy,,,,so I went straight to the "horses mouth,"  meaning John from Eagle Pack. I asked him why they were not allowed to put on their ingredient list what a few others are putting on. And his answer is: It is in red!

 
 I guess you are saying that if they put whole egg on their ingredient list,,they are going against the regulations?  They are going against AAFCO regulations. Or they are not using egg breakers?

  Like I said earlier, I have no reason to doubt Eagle Pack if they say they use whole eggs on their website but have to list them as "dried egg product" because of AAFCO regulations. Maybe in fairness, Innova and others who list "whole eggs" should be contacted and asked if, in their opinion, they are violating AAFCO regulations.

I wrote Natura and Nature's Variety today, I'll post when I hear back.

I think with all fairness, I should post John Marsmans whole answer to my question about why Eagle Pack doesn't use the term whole eggs in their ingredient list,,,while some other companies do.
 
 
Some years ago AAFCO acquiesced and changed the egg definition from Dried Whole Egg to Dried Egg Product.
 
The current AAFCO definition allows “…Egg Graders (eggs graded for human consumption by USDA definition, Grade A, Large etc),…Egg Breakers (shells with marks that won#%92t wash off, broken eggs from the grading operation,)…Hatchery Operations (broken at the hatchery and before it gets to the egg grading plant, partially developed eggs/embryos not hatched.) The plant from which we get our egg does not process any egg from “Hatchery Operations”. While the AAFCO definition allows for eggs from Hatchery Operations, to be used in pet food, and some pet food companies may be using it, we do not. The plant we get our egg from will not process any Hatchery Operations product.)
 
Any pet food company using the term “Dried Whole Egg” is doing so in violation of AAFCO, and they know it.
 
To be more precise about the egg we use, we use Egg Breakers, eggs that were sorted out from the human grading operation because of marks on the shell or eggs broken during the grading process. In freshness and nutritional value, there is no difference between the 2. The eggs are processed in USDA/APHIS approved plants. You would be safe and happy eating the product we use.
 
Eggs in general:
Egg is considered the most complete protein based on its amino acid profile. It is given an index value of 100 against which all other proteins are compared. No meat in any form equals egg.
 
Egg is NOT on the list of 3 ingredients causing 68% of allergies. However Chicken and Chicken Eggs are on the list of ingredients causing the next 25%. Keep in mind the exceptional nutritional value of egg versus the relatively small % of dogs with allergies, and how low egg is on the list and in the same group as chicken.