Am I slowly killing my dogs???

jessies_mom, I could not have said it better.  Not for one second do I believe I am killing my dogs or taking years off their lives because of the way I feed them.   In my 61 years I have seen to many dogs live long, healhty lives on Purina--without the added advantage of fish, cooked meats and veggies that mine have gotten the past few years.  I watched my dad's setters and pointers eat nothing but Purina Dog Chow and had the stmina to hunt all day long 7 days week, not only with us but with kin folks when we were not hunting.  I watched most of these dogs live beyond life expectancy in a time dogs were rarely taken to the vet for anything other than rabies and distemper vax....by country folks at least. 
 
We used cheap, store bought flea powder and shampoo that really didn't work, but was all that was around---that we know of--at the time. First time we ever heard of heart worms when Daddy lot his elderly English Setter--I think Commander was about 14--to the TREATMENT, not the worms about 35 years ago.  Our dogs did not get any supplements like so many do today...including mine.  If they got arthritis, oh well, that happens in old age.  Grandpa has it and he just takes some BC powder. 
 
I will  not feed raw because I can't eat food that isn't fully cooked well done and I just can't feed it to my dogs.  Also, I think I am a little leary of it.  And i am terrified to give them bones after seeing that chocolate lab puppy who died of peritonitis after his tummy was punctured by a pork chop bone--probably cooked, I do not know.  I could probably feed them raw and give them bones the rest of their lives and nothing happen, but I just can't risk it.
 
I enjoy reading all the different comments on here--corn is a big no-no, corn is just fine, dogs do not need any grains, dogs need some grains, dogs do not need veggies or fruits, dogs do need some veggies and fruits,  your dog will die years sooner if you feed X brand, I know of dogs that have lived very long on X brand, expert A says......., well that is wrong, Expert B says............., well they are both wrong, expert C says...........  and on and on and on.
 
So what I do is I LOOK at my the condition of my dogs, I READ their vet reports, I TALK to me vet and I know what I am feeding them is working for them.  It might not work for your dog at all, but id does for mine that that is what matters to me.
 
I don't worry about food.  I worry about the poison we are forced to give our dogs, especially down here in the south, to prevent heartworms.  I learned how deadly it can be when the "great" convenient proheart6, the 6 month injection came out and it killed my 4 year old golden Hunter.  I changed from Interceptor to the Proheart because it was suppose to be so much better.  I would say since it killed my Hunter it was not better.  I will never switch again.
 
I also worry about the poison I have to put on them because we are over run with fleas this year (alto I go as long as I can between applications) and occasionally ticks.  I worry about the diseases these nasties can cause if my dogs DO NOT have protection.
 
I worry about the house catching on fire with the dogs in while I am away--this has happened a couple of times recently over in Corpus and pets died.  My brother and his wife lost two cats this way several years ago.  The fire was small and contained to one room (one of those lamp timers caused it) and the cats died of smoke inhalation, not burned to death, thank goodness.
 
I worry about them being attacked while I walk them.  Just a couple of weeks ago a pit bull almost got our 11 1/2 year old golden when hubby was walking him.  Hubby stayed between him and Buck til the owner got hold of him--luckily owner was out in the yard--and even so he was lunging at Buck. On another forum, one lady had her golden attacked twice by a different dog within a month, the first a pit wich actually got hold of him, the other a pit/mastiff mix which didn't manage to get her dog's throat before some neighbors grabbed hold of the colloar.  Her dog had only been neutered a week before and still had stitches, just a very young dog.  The guys said the dog was fine with people, but very dog aggressive.
 
These are the things that worry me because I know they are real dangers and real threats.  Dog food...I know my dogs are doing great on what I am feeding them.  And as Jessie's mom said, everyone should find what works best for their dog, but do not think that is the ONLY right food or the ONLY right way to feed.

ORIGINAL: ron2

and oddly no one ever asks whether feeding nothing but dry, preserved grain-laden kibble will slowly kill their dog.

I know of a 16 year-old Siberian Husky, two years past her life expectancy, that has never had "human food." That is, she has always eaten kibble, Purina, if I remember. My cat lived 17 years on Purina. Sandra knows dogs that have lived long, active lives on Purina. And, with hers, she's got bloodwork to prove it.

My co-worker grew up with a GSD they got when he was 2. When the dog was 24 years old, he started going blind, and the dad decided it was time for him have his final rest. He ate whatever dog food they could get at whatever store. That is, I'm surrounded by just as many long-lived healthy dogs that eat big name kibble as you are surrounded by sickly dogs. Of course, genetics could always play a role, too.

 
*I* personally LOST a dog to contaminated KIBBLE (Nature's Recipe).  I guarantee you all - once you lose your beloved et simply because you fed the "wrong" dog food - you will never look at commercial kibble the same way again.  

I'm sorry for your loss due to contaminated kibble. We were discussing whether dogs are slowly dying from eating commercial kibble that is not contaminated. Sandra lost a dog to ProHeart 6.  Yet, at the same time, we can't stop treatments and preventatives for our dogs, let alone quit feeding them. And I can understand your anxiety. I would be cautious, too. I, too, have made changes in life after a bad circumstance taught me something. So, I don't fault you for being skiddish about kibble.
 

ORIGINAL: ron2

I'm sorry for your loss due to contaminated kibble. We were discussing whether dogs are slowly dying from eating commercial kibble that is not contaminated. Sandra lost a dog to ProHeart 6. Yet, at the same time, we can't stop treatments and preventatives for our dogs, let alone quit feeding them. And I can understand your anxiety. I would be cautious, too. I, too, have made changes in life after a bad circumstance taught me something. So, I don't fault you for being skiddish about kibble.

Sorry, I thought we were discussing the pro's and con's of kibble vs. raw and the risks involved with feeding either (or both). I didn't realize that mentioning the potential for contamination was irrelevant.

ORIGINAL Laura:
Agreed!! Point in case - the Diamond Aflatoxin recall. That is certainly something that makes me look carefully at kibble. Even though it happened b/c of corn, ANY grain can be suspect really. So, you just have to decide which risks you're willing to take, and if you think the benefits outweigh them - and then be willing to stand behind those choices.

I think this is totally relevant to the discussion. FWIW - I feed both kibble and pre-made raw, I just do not feed grain. I didn't mean to sound as if I were bashing kibble. I just thought it was worth noting that as scary as raw is to some people, kibble can kill your dog as well. What I have learned is that I will no longer blindly trust any one person or manufacturer when it comes to my family's health. It's all about risk management.

One of the first things you learn in any healthy eating plan is to cut OUT white rice, white bread, etc.  This leads me to believe that it just might be unhealthy

.
 
I believe it is because anything that is white,,,did not get that way naturally,,,such as white rice is bleached,,,as is the wheat in white bread. It is NOT the grain,,,its the process of making it white.
Years ago,,,I believe it was Dr. Lindon Smith that said "never eat anything that is white!"

It's all about risk management

 
Agreed. And I wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers.
 

*I* personally LOST a dog to contaminated KIBBLE (Nature's Recipe). I guarantee you all - once you lose your beloved pet simply because you fed the "wrong" dog food - you will never look at commercial kibble the same way again.

 
  I'm so sorry you lost a dog to kibble and it is very easy to understand why you have chosen not to feed kibble with grains. I think your post was on topic; the OP started the thread because he/she was concerned about the safety of a raw diet because of recent information he/she came across online. And I agree that it is all about risk management.

Here's an example.

100 grams of chicken breast (meat and skin but no bone) has the following values:

69.46% water
20.85% protein
9.25% fat
1.01% Ash

I used the USDA Nutritional Database to find this info. They do not include bone in any of the numbers so I can't give you a 100% accurate breakdown.

Here's another example - 100 grams of beef heart (they list veins, fat and connective tissue as refuse - I would feed those):

77.11% water
17.72% protein
3.94% fat
1.10% ash
.14% Carbs

 
I've been reading through the NRC's "Nutrient Requirements for Dogs", and found a list of nutrients in the things they put in pet food. One was whole, fresh hens, and it lists ash. Looks like when converted to dry matter, a whole chicken is around 15-16% ash! I'm excited to have found that, so I thought I'd share. []