Am I slowly killing my dogs???

And the cold, impersonal force of evolution rewards an omnivore with a better chance of survival.
 

true. Genetics plays a big role. But so does environment, including diet. I prefer to stack the cards in my favor by feeding a wide variety of foods, except for grain. Grain just is so unnatural, and proving to be so unhealthy for all animals, from people to horses. Only birds and mice are designed to eat diets that contain substantial quantities of grains.

Wonder if the Chinese, Viet Namese, etc who eat SO MUCH rice know that it is unnatural to eat grain and only birds and mice should eat it.    It is my understanding that at least half their diet is rice and has been forever.

One of the first things you learn in any healthy eating plan is to cut OUT white rice, white bread, etc.  This leads me to believe that it just might be unhealthy.
 
Horses have been fed grains in high amounts for many years as well.  Then some studies revealed that the amount of grain we feed them contributes significantly to colic, which is THE leading cause of death to horses.  That is no small thing.  Just because something has been done a way for years, does not mean that it is necessarily good.

The same thing is happening in ruminant nutrition. It has become evident that we are not doing these animals any favor by forcing them to survive on grains when they are built to eat grass. It's actually been my activity in this field that encourages me to continue to seek optimum nutrition for my dog and cat pack too (within the bounds of my budget, sigh, it's not as easy as growing the right kind of grass).

The same thing is happening in ruminant nutrition. It has become evident that we are not doing these animals any favor by forcing them to survive on grains when they are built to eat grass

 
  I didn't know that about horses and cattle; very interesting. I do believe that  grains are very good for humans though, especially whole grains.  DH and I have been following the DASH diet for our blood pressure and it includes whole grains.

In some of those countries, grain, such as rice, will provide up to about 20 percent of daily protein intake. Like some of the asian countries, where it is not uncommon for people to live into their 80s, eating rice and lots of it. As well as noodles. It is the chinese who invented noodles, which the italians later deemed pasta. I always get lo mein when I go to a chinese restaraunt.
 
Then, again, I eat hot dogs and lunch meat, too. Heck, I eat anything moving slow enough.
 

Just because something has been done a way for years, does not mean that it is necessarily good.

 
That's an excellent point. I totally agree. For example, just because a wolf lived an entire 6 years eating, as some would have it, all meat and no grain or plant matter and was malnourished at the time of its death doesn't mean that its diet was optimum.
 
Or, in years past, when everyone cooked in lard and live to their 70s and 80s. Neither was that diet necessarily optimum, though it did provide the carbs for energy to run a farm.
 
I saw a documentary on inherited healthiness and illness. There was this little town in Italy where everyone ate pasta and meat and drank wine and there no medical histories of heart disease. That diet isn't considered optimum, though the people lived well, anyway.
 
Can we truly define optimum? Is it balance over time? Or is it certain ingredients?
 
As I used to say and Brookcove says, the optimum "wild dog diet" varies. For a coyote, it is to bury a scavenged carcass and let it get rancid for a few days to a week. Go eat some berries or other small animals, like rodents, without much meat on them, then come back and dig up that fetid mess of by-product, left-over stomach remains and intestinal remains and bug-infested hide and splintered bones and "mange'", as the french would say. And this is documented fact from a researcher that tracked coyotes in the Adirondacks.
 
OTOH, a well-designed diet could be considered optimum and we should certainly strive for that, whether it's for ourselves, our dogs, or our horses. And it's been tough on livestock around here with the grazing fields having been scorched by a strong year and a half drought.

There was this little town in Italy where everyone ate pasta and meat and drank wine and there no medical histories of heart disease.

Was that the little coastal town where they found a gene brought in by a red-headed ancestor (literally) that virtually negates "bad" cholesteral? There's an island off the coast of NC where the opposite has happened - people who are all related to one ancestor (200 years back) have a condition where the body is unable to synthesize "good cholesterol" and thus they are at the mercy of every bit of bad cholesterol that builds up in the circulatory system. It was a horrifying thing until they discovered the cholesterol-lowering class of drugs ad still they don't live very long, no matter how well they live.

So yes, genetics can play a role - but honestly, if you look at the vast majority of organisms rather than the extremes, genetics seems to offer wide latitude for the organism to adapt - and therefore we have the opportunity to push the limits of our dogs' preprogrammed makeup. I believe nutrition can play a role there, as it can for us.

genetics seems to offer wide latitude for the organism to adapt - and therefore we have the opportunity to push the limits of our dogs' preprogrammed makeup. I believe nutrition can play a role there, as it can for us.

Very well put []

Just because a particular breed is 'prone' to cancer doesnt mean we have to just accept this as they're ultimate fate.By feeding a good diet,no grains where cancers concerned IMO, we might be able to stave it off or perhaps prevent it all together. By feeding a crappy food the dogs never going to thrive to it's full potential,and IMHO you're giving any disease that may be lurking a foot hold or head start that may not have been able to take a grip if the dog was fed a more species appropriate diet,which IMHO is not a food full of corn,barely any meat and bits and pieces of goodness knows what!

This is not directed at anyone inparticular,"you" is meant collectively []

I think all my worrying about my dogs nutrition is going to send me to the grave faster than rice and corn! []

I think all my worrying about my dogs nutrition is going to send me to the grave faster than rice and corn!

 
Seriously! Good gravy, I swear, sometimes I wish I could go back to happily feeding Iams (actually I'd graduated to Bil-Jac then Blue Buffalo then Wellness before I came here) and honestly feeling like I was doing pretty good for not feeding Kibbles and Bits. Now, no matter what I feed, I never really feel good about it! Thanks I-Dog! LOL

I saw a new commercial for Iams last night. They're bragging that they have no "fillers."
 

Now, no matter what I feed, I never really feel good about it! Thanks I-Dog! LOL

 
I feel the same way!  I don't understand why it has to be so complicated.  I stopped feeding my Shih Tzus any grain, I only feed them human grade fresh raw meat (I can't bring myself to give them raw bones yet, but they get their calcium from the product I mix with their raw.)  For treats they get Chicken Nibbles, which are 100% natural dried chicken, cookded veggies like broccoli or cauliflour and a little fruit like apples.  Occasionally they get to chew on Flossies.  This morning both of them threw-up yellow bile.  I don't know what could have caused it.  Could it be the flossies they ate yesterday?  Sometimes they get into the trash and eat Kleanex or T.P.   I think I'll start a new thread and ask this question - or  maybe I should just not worry about it...???[:@]

This morning both of them threw-up yellow bile. I don't know what could have caused it. Could it be the flossies they ate yesterday? Sometimes they get into the trash and eat Kleanex or T.P. I think I'll start a new thread and ask this question - or maybe I should just not worry about it...???

 
    I don't feed a raw diet but when posters that do ask this question the answer is because the dog's stomach is empty and it should be fed a late snack.
    It is hard not to be paranoid about dog food when you're a member of this forum because there are so many different points of view about the best way to feed a dog. I have one small piece of advice; take everyone's opinions with a grain of salt until you can verify the truthfullness of what they say with reading some books about dog nutrition or reading a credible online source; not a site selling their brand of food. Sometimes an accepted "truth" concerning dog nutrition starts as a rumor and is repeated until it is excepted as true without any credible research to back it up. A good example of that is the "corn myth". If you verify what you hear as much as possible it should relieve your paranoia a little, but unfortunately it won't go away altogether; trust me [X(]. I have stayed with the same food I was feeding Jessie before I joined idog except for one side trip but was back to feeding her old food after a few weeks and too many soft stools. I have a lot of confidence in the integrity and knowledge of the company that makes her food and she does great on it. I still have moments of paranoia but Jessie erases them with her energy and enthusiasm; dragging me after cats and squirrels when she's walked just like she did seven years ago.