Thought Beneful Bad..Look at this..

ORIGINAL: ron2

According to science that goes a smidge farther than the taxonomic classifications that were set in the 1800's, dogs are omnivores.

 
Thank you!
 
There is currently much debate over whether they are carnivores or omnivores but the FACT is that they are NOT, I repeat NOT true carnivores such as cats.  They can and do live off of things other than meat, whereas a true carnivore cannot eat things other than meat.
 

Is there such a thing as an opportunistic carnivore? Maybe dogs need their own classification,if they're not fully carnivore or omnivore??

ORIGINAL: Edie

Is there such a thing as an opportunistic carnivore? Maybe dogs need their own classification,if they're not fully carnivore or omnivore??

 
Carcassivore?
 
Tom Lonsdale []

ORIGINAL: loveukaykay

There is currently much debate over whether they are carnivores or omnivores but the FACT is that they are NOT, I repeat NOT true carnivores such as cats.  They can and do live off of things other than meat, whereas a true carnivore cannot eat things other than meat.

 
I know someone who would debate that with you all night long - her two cats are on a veggie diet and get a clean bill of health every 6 months. Hate to admit it, but they are thriving.

Dogs cannot naturally digest vegetable material. They eat it. They probably enjoy it. But they can't digest it without it being pre-digested or otherwise broken down. That, to me, means they are not naturally omnivores.

Carnivores obtain most of their food by eating other animals, and their digestion relies largely on enzymes rather than micro-organisms. Microbial digestion of cellulose occurs in the colon of the dog, but to such a small extent that the colon can be removed and the dog can survive perfectly well.

Omnivores feed on both plants and animals, but their digestion is mainly enzymatic - like that of the carnivores. The pig is usually considered to be an omnivore, but under domestication is mainly herbivorous; in addition to its enzymatic digestion, a good deal of microbial breakdown of plant material occurs in the large intestine of the pig, and also, to a lesser extent, in its stomach.

The small intestine of all mammals digests soluble carbohydrate, fat and protein, but cannot digest cellulose. The dog on a normal diet depends almost entirely on its small intestine for its nutrition. The small intestine of the horse would not be capable of digestive activity similar to that in the dog, even if the horse were fed with a dog's diet. The omnivorous pig can adapt to either a carnivorous or a herbivorous diet.

Dr A.L.R. Findlay, Director of Studies in Medical and Veterinary Sciences, Physiological Laboratory, University of Cambridge

http://www.chu.cam.ac.uk/~ALRF/giintro.htm

ORIGINAL: Edie

Is there such a thing as an opportunistic carnivore? Maybe dogs need their own classification,if they're not fully carnivore or omnivore??

There is no "classification" as an opprotunistic carnivore, it is just a description (I guess you would call it).  They are scientifically classified as omnivores, but noted for being opprotunistic carnivores (given the option they would choose meat).

Who was it that classified dogs as dogpoopivores, garbagivores, catlitterivores?? LOL I can't remember who said that, but I remember it made my day [8D]

I so want to comment on this but feel like it might come back to bite me.  Not from in here, but from the powers that be.  Some stuff hit the fan today so to speak with my job and Purina and well......
 
Okay I will refrain from some comments anyway.  I think that the naturals line is again a postive step for Purina.  Small steps upwards, as long as upwards is always welcome.  In 7 years I have never been asked my opinion.  Not that I expected to be asked, but I have insight that they don't have in some ways.  They should be following this forum perhaps.  Getting a feel for what the public wants.  Its a numbers game in the corporate world and that is all its about. 

Who was it that classified dogs as dogpoopivores, garbagivores, catlitterivores?? LOL I can't remember who said that, but I remember it made my day

 
 
I never saw that, but it is just a great description of dogs.  My dogs can be totally full, but you drop a green bean, a little pat of butter, a bread crust, etc and they are on it in a flash.  Honey is the worst in the world at snagging used napkins or used kleenex tissues (UGH) and eating them.  Got to keep a close eye on her.

You have an excellent point there. I for one, would not mind a re-examination and possible change in the taxonomy. They did it in the 90s with species nomenclature. Why not update or even create a new taxonomic description?

Humans don't digest cellulose, eiither. Muscle tissue is cellulose and it passes through. We get nutrition from what's in the cells. There is no 100% absorption for mammals and it would be disastrous if there was.
 

Dogs are not true omnivores, but they are not obligate carnivores (and the person with the vegan cat - talk to her in ten years when she's waving goodbye as kitty goes to the Bridge, unless she's supplementing that diet - to continue good health, cats need substances that are only found in meat.) I believe the term usually associated with canids is "opportunistic feeders", *not* opportunistic carnivores.  Wild dogs, coyotes, etc., will eat berries and other fruit and vegetable matter, but obviously the main part of the diet is meat.  Perhaps they do need their own classification.  At least it might stop the endless debate. []

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

(and the person with the vegan cat - talk to her in ten years when she's waving goodbye as kitty goes to the Bridge, unless she's supplementing that diet - to continue good health, cats need substances that are only found in meat.)

 
LOL, I hope she's lucky to have them around for 10 more yrs. The DLH I think is 8 or 9 and the DSH is 12 (would have to ask again, it's been awhile since we argued []). Both came from a rescue, the director had a holistic vet look at the diet and s/he couldn't find anything wrong with it.. other than it's missing meat. I dunno that much about it, I just know I talked with her vet and they are healthy as a cat eating meat, and go to the office every 6 months for bloodwork/exams. She looked at vegetarian kibbles/canned but decided to do it home made.
 
Not something I would do, but hey, I tried showing her info, but unfortunately she chooses to push her beliefs on the cats (if that makes sense).

how on earth are they providing taurine on a vegetarian diet? it doesn't exist in vegetables. Those cats are going to develop heart problems in five years.
 
If you fed your dog on nothing but un-processed vegetation your dog would rapidly starve to death. Vegetable cells have cell walls made out of cellulose. Only certain strains of bacteria are able to break down celloluse. The only way ANY animal can get nutrition out of vegetation is by breaking open the cell walls. Animals designed to eat vegetation, such as cows or humans, have big flat molars and they spend a lot of time chewing their food. This chewing action opens the cell walls and releases the contents. Dogs don't have flat molars. They don't chew much. They shear and swallow. The only way to keep a dog alive on vegetation is to cook it, grind it up, or retrieve it from the stomachs of herbivores. I therefore conclude that dogs are not true omnivores because they require help from other animals, usually humans, to be able to eat anything other than meat.

how on earth are they providing taurine on a vegetarian diet? it doesn't exist in vegetables. Those cats are going to develop heart problems in five years.

When Emma was ill, I came online, and ordered a supplement called VegeDog, from pangeaveg.com. For several months, Emma tolerated NO animal protein, whatsoever. Her whole body would swell up, she'd seizure, become violent, the whole nine. VegeDog has vegan taurine in it. I prepared low protein vegan meals for her, every other day. I kept the food in the fridge and scooped out meals FIVE TIMES a day. She was very ill to start with, so I can't say whether I saw a deficiency or not. Eventually, she developed allergies to the soy and rice and became ill from that. I slowly (very, very, very slowly.... 12 weeks) switched her diet over.

Anyhow, there are vegan dog and cat diets and supplements available that contain taurine. Human supplements, too. Vegan kibbles ALWAYS contain taurine. I'm not saying it's right to feed a carnivore a vegan diet (because it's NOT, except in extenuating circumstances), but I am saying that there are things available to get around nature.

At least it might stop the endless debate

 
No, it won't. You can quote verifiable fact, from the notes of a field researcher, from a textbook on canine GIT, you can reference video or film footage of something and some people will still debate you on it. Not because they are right but because a) they can't ever lose a debate or be proven wrong, and b) once they've latched onto a theory, they will either mangle or outright reject evidence that doesnt' fit their theory.
 
For example, a person thinks it's okay to beat a dog. No matter how many times you tell them that +R is better, even showing videos, they will continue to reject your evidence because it doesn't fit their theory and they, of course, can't lose a debate or learn something new because they already know everything.
 
And trust me, this reply is not bitter in tone or intention, it's just a statement of how things are. It all started with Einstein.