Food recommendations for a dog with pancreatitis

In addition to whatever jessie's_mom may have (which is more than anyone else I know) -- you might let this lady know that beef heart is typically about 3% fat or less (the heart itself usually has zero fat, and you can cut any off the pericardium on the outside) -- usually you have to talk to the "meat manager" (not just whoever answers the phone in the meat dept of your store -- ASK for the meat "manager" or who does the ordering) - heart may need to be ordered.  Then ask them to slice it "in wedges - like a tangerine" -- the heart is essentially a round shap so this does make sense. 

 That makes it E ... Z .... to then cut it into cubes.  Heart is a clean organ and it's considered "muscle meat" so you can give all you want/need.  It's easy to give raw (and Heavens they LOVE it) but even if you just steam it a wee bit to kill surface bacteria  it would make her zero fat treats at least. 

  Sorry I didn't see this sooner, but we didn't have internet access for almost a week. If the dog has high triglycerides, which can be a cause of pancreatitis, fish oil may help lower them. It sounds counter-intuitive to add more fat, but it's something veterinary internists recommend. It's best to wait until the dog has been stable for awhile and then slowly add it a few drops at a time and see if the dog tolerates it. Her vet may have a recommended waiting time before adding the fish oil.  Probiotics are helpful in preventing recurrences of pancreatitis, but can be harmful during an attack, so she needs to wait until the dog has been stable awhile before adding them. Antioxidants are good too, such as vitamin E. I'm sure the vet has approved the 12% fat diet, but the internist Jessie sees only recommends diets that are 10% fat or lower while the dog is recovering. The dog may be fine after this incident and may be able to return to a higher fat diet. Monitoring the Spec cPL;        Spec cPL Test

will help in determining how much fat the dog can tolerate. Jessie has chronic pancreatitis and when I had her Spec cPL checked last summer, it was about 600. Anything over 400 is pancreatitis. She seemed to be fine but the internist wanted her on a lower fat diet; her diet at the time was 10% fat. She's now on a combination of Blue Buffalo Basics Healthy Weight Turkey and Potato and a cooked diet, and her diet is 8% fat. It's very important to stress that the pancreas can take awhile to heal and it's best to be very careful with the dog's diet for several weeks after the dog seems to be doing well. It's a common mistake to put the dog back on a higher fat diet too soon because he's acting better, causing a relapse. Your advice about eliminating any fatty treats is excellent; baby carrots or other similar treats can be given. I hope he recovers quickly.

 I didn't get the e-mail, maybe because of our internet being down but I'm not certain how that works. I forgot to mention that if they used canned food, it's important to know about dry matter basis;     Dry Matter Basis - A Better Way to Compare Dog Foods

The percentage of fat is much higher than what's stated on the label when the moisture is removed. An example would be Wellness canned Turkey and Barley stew. The label says it's 4% fat, but on a dry matter basis, it's 22% fat. I hope this sweet boy only has a one time flare up and not chronic pancreatitis.

And now everyone knows WHY I say "jessies_mom knows more about pancreatitis than any other person I know" -- and it's all practical stuff.

 Thanks Callie: Jessie's had chronic pancreatitis for four years now, so I've had lots of time to learn. The members of the yahoo group for owners of dogs with pancreatitis are great at answering questions and giving support. It's a great group to join for anyone with a dog that has chronic pancreatitis;   Sign in to Yahoo!

 I've been very fortunate in having access to an internal medicine specialist at a nearby vet teaching hospital, and have learned a lot from him.

I agree completely with what jessies_mom, however, she is talking about kibble fed dogs.  You see, high triglycerides are caused mainly by diets that are high in refined carbohydrates.  There is no better description of kibble dog food than "high in refined carbohydrates", thus kibble is a strong causitive factor in triglycerides in dogs.  If a dog is switched to a prey model raw(PMR) diet, the triglycerides automatically decrease greatly.  I have never known a dog fed a prey model raw diet to have pancreatitis.  I have known MANY pancreatitis dogs who switched to a PMR diet have their problems disappear to the amazement of their vets.  Fat levels in the PMR diet seem to have little or no effect because there are no carbs in the PMR diet.

For clarification for those who don't know, a PMR diet is a diet of raw meat, bones, and organs from a variety of animals only with no plant matter whatsoever.  For more information on the PMR diet and my recomendations on how to switch your dog check out http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

RawFedDogs

If a dog is switched to a prey model raw(PMR) diet, the triglycerides automatically decrease greatly.  I have never known a dog fed a prey model raw diet to have pancreatitis.  I have known MANY pancreatitis dogs who switched to a PMR diet have their problems disappear to the amazement of their vets.  Fat levels in the PMR diet seem to have little or no effect because there are no carbs in the PMR diet.

  I'm a member of K9 kitchen, a yahoo group for those who feed their dogs cooked or raw diets. A member who feeds her dog a raw diet recently posted that the dog had pancreatitis. Also, the moderator of the group, Monica Segal, formulates both raw and cooked diets for clients but does not recommend a raw diet for dogs with pancreatitis because of the risk of introducing bacteria into a compromised immune system. You see, pancreatitis not only affects the GI tract, but also effects other organs such as the kidneys and liver.

RawFedDogs

I agree completely with what jessies_mom, however, she is talking about kibble fed dogs.  You see, high triglycerides are caused mainly by diets that are high in refined carbohydrates.  There is no better description of kibble dog food than "high in refined carbohydrates", thus kibble is a strong causitive factor in triglycerides in dogs 

    Do you have documentation to back up that claim? Here are the known causes of high triglycerides (hyperlipidemia) according to the veterinary community:

  hyperlipidemia.doc - hyperlipidemia.pdf

  01 Hyperlipidemia - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

 Edited to add; Jessie was on a cooked diet when she had her first pancreatitis attack. The diet was high protein and low carb.

jessies_mom

I'm a member of K9 kitchen, a yahoo group for those who feed their dogs cooked or raw diets. A member who feeds her dog a raw diet recently posted that the dog had pancreatitis.

There are many kinds of raw diets.  I plainly stated I was specifically speaking of Prey Model Raw which contains nothing but meat, bones, and organs from a variety of animals WITH NO PLANT MATERIAL (carbs).  Obviously this person was feeding carbs as a significient part of her dog's diet.

jessies_mom

Also, the moderator of the group, Monica Segal, formulates both raw and cooked diets for clients but does not recommend a raw diet for dogs with pancreatitis because of the risk of introducing bacteria into a compromised immune system.

That shows me how little Monica Segal knows about feeding a raw diet to dogs.  Bacteria just isn't a problem to a dog when injested through the mouth to the stomach.  A dog's highly acidic stomach juices kill bacteria almost instnatly upon reaching the stomach.  I have fed and have many friends who have fed a PMR diet to immunocompromised dogs with no adverse effect.

jessies_mom

Do you have documentation to back up that claim?

"Diets high in refined carbohydrates, with carbohydrates accounting for more than 60% of the total energy intake, can increase triglyceride levels."   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triglyceride  This article was about triglicerides not specific to dogs. 

jessies_mom

Here are the known causes of high triglycerides (hyperlipidemia) according to the veterinary community:

  hyperlipidemia.doc - hyperlipidemia.pdf

  01 Hyperlipidemia - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

The first link is a web page by an ordinary (as near as I can tell) vet.  Hardly a spokesman for "the veterinary community."  The 2nd link says nothing about causes of high triglicerides, only diagonisis and treatment.

jessies_mom

Edited to add; Jessie was on a cooked diet when she had her first pancreatitis attack. The diet was high protein and low carb.

But still included carbs.  Dogs are carnivores and as such, have no dietary need for carbs.  Carbs cause all kinds of problems in dogs because their bodies are not designed to handle them. 

   The author of the information in the first link is a veterinary internal medicine specialist; sorry I didn't make that clear before. There is a paragraph in the second link listing several causes of high triglycerides. Monica Segal is very experienced and highly respected as an expert in formulating raw and cooked diets for dogs. The forward for one of her books was written by Dr. Ana Hall. professor of small animal nutrition at Ohio State University.  We're done with this discussion; I will not reply to anymore of your posts.

jessies_mom

The author of the information in the first link is a veterinary internal medicine specialist; sorry I didn't make that clear before.

His speciality doesn't matter.  He is trained to work with and works everyday with kibble fed dogs.  It hasn't occured to him yet that kibble (carbs)is the cause of pancreatitis.

jessies_mom

Monica Segal is very experienced and highly respected as an expert in formulating raw and cooked diets for dogs. The forward for one of her books was written by Dr. Ana Hall. professor of small animal nutrition at Ohio State University.

I've known who Monica Segal is for many years.  I don't care who writes the forwards for her book.  She makes her living from formulating diets "specially for my dog".  She must make them as complicated and in a way to make her appear very smart.  How much money could she make if she just said, "Feed your dog raw meat, bones, and organs from a vareity of animals.  Mostly meat, some bone, and some organs.  No need for any supplements.  Just meat, bones, and organs."  Who would pay her big bucks for that information eventhough its the absolute best information she could give?  Her goal is to make money.