Picking dry dog foods....

    • Gold Top Dog

    Picking dry dog foods....

     I wanted to avoid this topic because it causes so much controversy, but I am giving myself a headache researching dog foods and trying to eliminate whats good and whats bad for my dog. (sorry, this may get lengthy)

    My ex and I were feeding my boxer and his american bulldog Purina One lamb and rice. I know...that is not considered good dog food, but we did check through all the bags at Walmart and that was the best looking one when we considered ingredients and price for what we could afford at the time. He was not willing to spend the price on dog food and I couldnt afford to feed two dogs the premium dog food by myself...otherwise we would have been living under a bridge. Besides, Marley always did well on it. He always has a shiny coat, never lost hair...but he does have small amounts of gunky's in the corner of his eyes, but always had. I am pretty sure he has an allergy towards grass and pollen, not so much food. The only other thing was he had some stinky gas and farts a lot, but most boxers do.

    Now that I moved out and am living back with my mom, I can afford to buy some better dog food. I have been researching and googling EVERYTHING, but I think I am just getting more and more confused the more I look into it. For example, I looked up chicken meal vs chicken by-product and from what I have read...chicken meal is far better than chicken by-product will ever come close to (at first I thought it was close to the same thing-my ignorance). I heard that whole (not "meal" products), like chicken, salmon, etc have about 80% water weight, so by the time they are included in the food, they have way less protein than chicken or salmon "meal" have in them. I used to look for chicken or salmon being the 1st ingredient, but now I am wondering if the dog food that has something "meal" as the first ingredient isnt so bad?? I have read too that meal is the number one ingredient I SHOULD be looking for due to it being the meat processed down.
    I also read that by-product should not be in dog food because its the beaks, feet, intestines, etc of many different types of animals including livestock and believe it or not, roadkill or euthanized dogs and cats...but then read controversy about it on other sites because animals in the wild go directly for the intestines and the beaks and feet have good amounts of protein in them. Also that by-product may even have greater concentration of glucosomine and chondrontin than skeleton meat

    I heard having lots of rice in a meal isnt that great for a dog because its not beneficial to their diets, but then why are a lot of food consisting as rice usually the second or third ingredient in the list?

    Here is what I have researched throughout the last few days and I am trying to keep price involved. I figured I used to spend $30 with two dogs for a 34lb bag and now since I am only feeding one dog, I dont mind spending double the price on dog food because it will last me just as long feeding one dog as it did buying two bags of purina one for two dogs in the same timeframe.

    So, out of all the ones I have looked at, I have the most interest/questions out of the following: 

    Innova-Adult dog food-sounds pretty good, but the biggest bag I could buy would be 15lbs for $32.99. So, I figure for all the rest of the dog food I have looked at (normally 30lbs or a couple lbs bigger) if I bought this brand x2 it would be one of the higher priced dog food coming in roughly at $65. The ingredients in this dog food have Turkey, Chicken, Chicken meal, Barley, brown rice, potatoes, rice and chicken fat being the 1st 8 ingredients. There are two different types of rice and one potato which is more starch than what I thought was needed since dogs dont generally need these in their diet. 

      Nature's Recipe Grain Free Easy to Digest-is a $44.99, 24 lb bag of food. The first few ingredients of the salmon flavor (which I would get over the chicken) contains sweet potatoes AND potato before the salmon meal. Salmon is the first ingredient, but then again I am wondering if the "meal" is better than the actual Salmon is since it has more protein in it. I also wonder why they put two potatoes before the actual salmon meal? 

     

     I have heard a lot of people like the Royal Canin, but I couldn’t find a bag that wasn’t breed specific or just plain "adult dog food". Boxer's are not large breed dogs, although some people stick them in that category. They are not large like Great Dane, St Bernard, Mastiff, etc....the males tend to only get to around 75 lbs. Therefore, I would not feed my dog a large breed formula of food. The other thing RC has besides large breed is "medium" that only goes up to 55lbs. Marley is 75lbs. Anyway, I looked at the breed specific food by RC for boxers and the first ingredient had "meal" in it (again, was the meal okay to have over the whole?) and then followed by two more ingredients of rice....Another thing about this brand of food was the price. It was one of the highest priced dog foods I looked at. Is it worth it?

     

     I looked at both Nutro Ultra and Nutro Natural Choice brand foods and they had *FOUR* different rice's within the first *FIVE* ingredients depending on which type you were looking at. They have a pretty decent price on their food (for what I have been looking at), but with all the rice in the first ingredients...why would I pay that much? 

    Now, one of the ones I really liked the ingredients for was Taste of the Wild-leaning more towards the High Prairie formula. This one wasn’t a bad price either being $47.99 for a 30lb bag. I have heard a lot of people (a lot of my boxer friends too) that use TOTW and never had any complaints. This food had the most amount of "real" foods than what I had found in any other bag of food (Bison, lamb meal, chicken meal, sweet potatoes, peas, potatoes, canola oil, roasted bison, roasted venison, natural flavor, tomato pomace, ocean fish meal, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, yucca) not including rice although it does have two types of potato.

     

    I will more than likely buy a small bag of the TOTW High Prairie and see how Marley does on it, but just wanted to hear your opinions on the dog food and more importantly about the by products and meals.

     

    One other thing...I currently boil chicken breasts and mix it with carrots and peas (sprinkled with garlic powder) once a week to "top" in Marleys food with some water...would that be a wasteful thing to do once I start him on this new diet? I always cooked for him before because he was a picky eater.

    ETA: The font changed because I started writing in the forum and had to change computers so I finished typing on my email and to add line breaks

    • Gold Top Dog

    IMHO, homecooking is never a wasteful thing.  Do mix up the veggies tho to give him a wider variety of vitamins and minerals.

    Rice is a commonly used ingredient because it is CHEAP.  Brown rice is better and preferable, but absolutely no rice (or grain) glutens, fragments.  And brewers rice?  worthless.

    Manufacturers list their ingredients UNPROCESSED.  So yes, the chickn that has the most bulk unprocessed becomes a smidgen of what it was.  Some manufacturers will list boneless chicken and thats better because at least you aren't loosing weight to the bones.  So yeah, MEAL is better, but I look for a one two punch....either a named meat and named meal or a named meal and named meat as ingredients number one and two.

    I personally avoid corn, wheat and soy, grain glutens or fragments, ALL BYPRODUCTS.

    As for what food is best?  Ask 10 people and you are likely to get 10 different answers.  I like Innova, Blue Buffalo and Natural Balance..  I'm giving consideration to Taste of the Wild.  However, the very best food in the world isn't so great if your dog doesn't like it/won't eat it or it doesn't agree with him.

    • Gold Top Dog

     

     In terms of selecting good foods, I refer to this site:   http://dogfoodanalysis.com/

    Reading the reviews for a few is enlightening!  It also helps you learn what to look for when reading labels. Read a few 6 star, and then read some 2 star.  Eye-opening!

    What food to pick depends in part on your breed, and on lifestyle.  I have bichons (high food allergy!) and lap dogs (low need for carbs).  A working dog (Agility, herding on a farm e.g.) will need more carbs.  Also consider your dog's age: puppies need a higher calcium content. 

    The 2 resources I used exclusively in sorting out the food was the site I gave you (wwwodogfoodanalysis.com) and The Whole Pet Diet by Andi Brown.  Found it at my library, liked it and bought a copy off Amazon.com  That is where I got the info for the various toppers I use.  She has some good recipes in there too, which I make about once a month.  I stick to one brand and rotate toppings: pumpkin, Greek yogurt, parsley, 4 different oils, egg etc.

    If you home cook, you want to learn more about nutrition, rotate the veggies as mentioned already, and consider using a supplement such as Missing Link.  It is a powder to sprinkle in the food.

     

    I have bichons, so I have to stay away from brown ride, and beet pulp, as both will cause tear stains and eye goop.  This is an example of knowing what works and what does not for your breed.

     

    Taste of the Wild is a fantastic brand, I used that for a time, and still have my cats on one of their formulas.  I can't use a fish formula as Sugar is allergic to all fish. The High Prairie was too rich and my pups were having protein itch.  I used the Sierra Mountain, as I recall,  and was quite happy -- except that Lacey kept having low blood glucose reactions, no matter what I did for treats before bed and in the morning.  So I ended up switching to Halo Spot's Stew chicken formula.  That has been working well for my flock of fluffs for over a year now!  So that is an example of know what works and what does not for your dog specifically.

    When discussing specific foods, it is not enough to list the brand, you need to include the formula as well.  

    • Gold Top Dog

    Not to nitpik, but dogs don't get energy from carbs like us humans do....dogs use protein for energy.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Dogs DO use carbs as energy....

    Soluble carbohydrates can be broken down in the digestive tract, and while dogs do not produce salivary amylase to start starch breakdown in the mouth, they do produce amylase in the small intestine.

    Pre-cooked carbs (such as what is in dog foods, or cooked oatmeal, cooked rice, etc) is what dogs can digest. These are readily available energy sources in addition to protein.

    • Gold Top Dog

    jettababy
    Dogs DO use carbs as energy....

     

      Yep; and they use fat as energy too. Also, sometimes certain types of carbs are very necessary. For example, Jessie has chronic pancreatitis and does best on white rice as the carb source. Dogs actually need less protein than we're inclined to think. Jessie is 60 pounds and needs about 40 grams of protein a day. The cooked diet she's on which was formulated by Monica Segal has 57 grams. Before being on this diet, she did better on the much maligned Nutro than any other dry food we tried.

      BoxerMom; I think you have a good handle on what makes a good dog food, and I've heard good things about TOTW. But, if your dog doesn't do well on it or other popular brands on this forum, there's nothing wrong with trying lesser thought of foods if that's what your dog does best on.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Tootsie, who as far as I know has no allergies. Shes not very active either. In the past I fed Eagle Pack and now I feed Natural Balance Reduced Calorie. (She has a tendency to pack on the lbs.) Big Smile

    Also, at her night feeding she gets Salmon Oil and Vitamin E.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thank you everyone for the replies! I did a lot of learning about dog food in the past few days and just wanted to make sure I was somewhat right on what I had come to.

    I definitely will not by any other dog food with by-products,,,and learning that "meal" isnt so bad is a great thing because I couldnt find one food without it! LOL

    I am going to go with TOTW, trying the high prairie first and then rotating the flavors (I like that you can do that so my dog will not get bored with the same flavor over and over). I used to add brown rice with the chicken/veggie mash but since the TOTW has potatoes in it, I will avoid putting rice in and add more vegetables.

    I finally feel comfortable with what I am feeding my dog...whew! All the times people would ask me what I fed my dog and my response was Purina One...I knew it wasnt a great food, but it was what I could afford and Marley ate it and had beautiful skin and coat.

    Anyway, thanks again for the comments...I am taking them all in and hope to one day be as knowledgeable about food as you all are. Smile

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thank you everyone for the replies! I did a lot of learning about dog food in the past few days and just wanted to make sure I was somewhat right on what I had come to.

    I definitely will not by any other dog food with by-products,,,and learning that "meal" isnt so bad is a great thing because I couldnt find one food without it! LOL

    I am going to go with TOTW, trying the high prairie first and then rotating the flavors (I like that you can do that so my dog will not get bored with the same flavor over and over). I used to add brown rice with the chicken/veggie mash but since the TOTW has potatoes in it, I will avoid putting rice in and add more vegetables.

    I finally feel comfortable with what I am feeding my dog...whew! All the times people would ask me what I fed my dog and my response was Purina One...I knew it wasnt a great food, but it was what I could afford and Marley ate it and had beautiful skin and coat.

    Anyway, thanks again for the comments...I am taking them all in and hope to one day be as knowledgeable about food as you all are. Smile

    • Gold Top Dog
    I've used TOTW in the past, and had great results with my two little dogs. It didn't work for my aussie, so we switched everyone back to Blue Buffalo. I've never had an issue with that food... Casey's been on it since I've had him, which is about 5 years now (eek!)
    • Bronze

     I too was in your shoes being uneducated in dog food. After my last dog passed due to her poor dog food. (totally my fault) I went on a 7month journey to educate myself and find the best foods I can for my current best friend. I have tried them all: TOTW, BB, Pure Vita, Fromm..etc..etc They are all good foods but I wanted something even better. Finally , I came across MulliganStew. Now at first glance it may seem like an average' run of the mill food with some brown rice but upon further review, this food is stellar!! If you are soo inclined please go to their website and learn about their product. It is baked at a low temp not extruded. Made from free range, hormone free, human grade meats.GMO free.Free or Ethoxyquinn,BHT,BHA. But most importantly it slowly detoxifies your pets.(this is what sold me). Also, with the food being baked, it is not like the rock hard extruded kibble that can take out a car window..lol. You can crush it between your fingers. I am not saying this is the food for everyone but I finally can stop my endless search.

    PS: dogfoodanalysis.com is a great starting point BUT it is biased towards high protein foods. It doesnt accurately reflect some of the great qualities of other foods. Their top priority when rating foods is protein content which is not always the most important part of a good quality dog food. (IMO)

    • Silver
    if you see it advertised on TV - avoid it. If it's the Walmart house brand - avoid it. If the first ingredient isn't meat - avoid avoid avoid. If it contains corn - avoid Grain too - it is a grain Meat By product is the crap that they scrape off the floor of meat processing plants. It's a step below chicken mcnuggets (if that's possible). We feed him Acana Pacifica from Champion Petfoods. We tried Orijen (which is a step above Acana) but it was too high in protein and really for über active dogs (ie Sheep Dogs and real working dogs).
    • Gold Top Dog

    I did a lot of research too before I got my pup. It's not easy! I also really liked the ingredients of TOTW, but I ended up going with Merrick, as it is a smaller company, and family owned. I also like that they use organic chicken in thier foods, which was a big selling point for me! It is not super expensive; a 30 lb bag is about $50.

    The company is redoing their recipes, but I expect the quality to stay the same or improve. I know that the calories per cup are going up, a good thing for my pup Zeke, as we are still trying to get him up to proper weight; he burns it all off running around.

    I don't know how widely available Merrick is, due to it being a small company, but I thought I'd mention it, since no one else did!

    • Gold Top Dog

     Merrick has serious QC issues.

    • Gold Top Dog
    Really? I hadn't heard of any. Can you enlighten me? I don't want to feed something that is questionable!