FLYBALL!!!

I hope you have fun with that! You will have to post pictures when Nikon gets better, I have never seen a GSD doing Flyball

I wanted to do that with Marley but one of the requirements was to keep your dog in a kennel when he wasnt competing and help set up with others (at competitions and practice). I dont mind putting Marley in a kennel inside, but when competitions are outside...its too bloody hot in FL to have him in there in the sun.

I have a feeling you will be blowing everybody away in no time!

I keep thinking he is too big, but they keep insisting we come back.  Maybe they just want my money, lol!  I don't think so, they are very nice and supportive.  It's not really a class but we pay $7 each time.  There is one lady in charge and she decides who runs with who, what to work on.  I don't know if Nikon will ever compete but it is fun and easy for us, something we can work on at home all winter.  The thing that Nikon has going for him is that he is obsessed with his reward ball (not tennis balls) and already has a retrieve, so all I've had to do was show him I want the tennis ball, not the dumbbell.  I've noticed that the flyball dogs who have drive for the tennis ball tend to go out fast but come back slower (once they have the ball) but my dogs come back fast or even faster with the ball.

The kenneling thing is not a problem for us, we are used to that since it is also required for most of the other things I compete in.  Our van is basically a kennel on wheels and well equipped to handle extreme heat and extreme cold.

We went once in Feb. and they had Nikon do a bunch of recalls, some with a large fake dog in the way to train him to yield the lane.  Then we didn't go back until this month so now we're working on the box turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1SFX7pn-fQ

This is Nikon testing out my original board.  I have since modified it so that the surface is different (this black surface was too slippery), the angle of the board is a bit steeper more like the real box, and the board is raised off the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za5mLXD7yko

Before I made the board, I had him jump and turn.  The jump here is a little bit too high but it was as low as that jump can go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpQpmOGndrU

I had to make the board because if my GSDs did this they'd knock the fence down!  Plus, Nikon does have a back condition so I'm being more picky about the surfaces he's landing on and pushing off of and I want my board to have a little "give" even if it means he won't get as solid a push off it doing drills at home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=PgI16Y0MJYo

 Luke is a fly ball dog (okay, he's not competing yet, but we're looking for a team). I don't have a push board, but I just propped a board up and was having Luke work on it that way. If I were starting again with him, I think I wouldn't want to put him on the real box with the ball until he had a good box turn going already. Now he scrambles on the box, feet flying everywhere. Right now someone is stepping in to prompt him to slow down.The problem with shaping him on the box now is that he is so excited to get the ball (he cries at the start line when I line him up) there is no reinforcer in the world better than the ball, and you can't stop the ball from triggering if he does a bad turn. So, he keeps getting reinforced for the bad turns. That seems like something super hard to undo once it's  taught for a dog who is so excited to get the ball he's crying (when it's not his turn, I sometimes hold him, he tries to break away sometimes when he hears the trainer call go... so yeah, no competing reinforcer).

I was trying to take him to train at another class, just to train in another location (it seems if you are serious, you should get them training in multiple locations too so they don't get over used to their "home" location). Apparently the other place doesn't get enough people to really run the class (umm.... what? My place, which is not club affiliated, has had to expand the class for the dogs who have taken beginner). I might just sign Luke up to do a private session there to check the place out, advice for straightening out his box turns, etc. 

Is Luke the Cav in your sig?  I would think he would be in high demand!  Our group had two Belgians, a chocolate lab, border collie, and four GSDs so we needed height dogs BAD.  My friend (who I do this with) adopted a Corgi and then her boyfriend moved up here with a small Corgi/JRT mix.  The person that runs the training has two of those tiny "mini Aussies".  It's funny watching Nikon run alongside the Corgi/JRT mix.  She has a habit of breaking away and picking on the other dog so they run her next to Nikon since we know each other (they understand if my dog corrects her for that behavior) and she takes one look at his size and doesn't give us any crap during her runs.  Pan runs alongside my friend's GSD puppy since they are both scatterbrained puppies and know each other well enough where they don't pick fights if they get in each others' way.

Luckily neither of my dogs know that the box triggers the ball yet so I'm hoping to really reinforce the proper turn.  Also because they are so big the technique is even more important, I do not want them sliding in that is so bad for their shoulders when they already carry 80% of the weight/pressure in their fronts.

OMGosh Lies!! Nikon did AWESOME for his first run....I couldnt believe his stretch/reach(?)...he took those jumps in one stride between each set! HAHA that was great!!

$7 a class is cheap...or I am going to an expensive place LOL Ours is a $20 drop in fee or $85 for 6 weeks

Actually, all the dogs take the same steps between the jumps.  I was noticing this last time, how the mini-Aussie about 1/8th the size of Nikon used the same number of steps.  Two of the other small dogs take two steps (like you can hear them go "patpat....patpat....patpat...." between the jumps) but they are all ideally supposed to take one.  Below at the link that is the fast mini Aussie.  That Border Collie is 10 years old.  You can tell when she is running with good form when her topline never changes.  You don't want them to spring real high over the jumps because that wastes energy.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_WfHb2uT3E

Nikon's problem is that because the jumps are often so low and he gets so high in drive for his toy, he still tends to jump flat and sometimes kicks the jumps.

 Tonight's work on the finished board

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjG3R1zzAF4

 Yup, Luke is the cavalier boy. I'm going to hopefully start checking out teams soon, but I'm debating a bit because I might move, but I might not, and I'd be in a different region (a region which is lacking in  height dogs severely, we're in region 15, which is lacking, but not as severely as where I might be headed). I'm hoping next time there is a local tournament, to get him in some single dog races and get some times on him.

Some of the small dogs seem to be able to single stride only ever other jump. I have no clue what Luke does, I've  never really watched and checked, and it seems we never have in class. We have for some of the other dogs, but never for him. He seems to be running so fast already, like just short of legs scrambling all over and losing control, but he never does. I'll have to watch him next week and see what he's doing. There's a little white one, I don't know what she is, she can do single strides, but I think she only does coming back (she appears to have no motivation to go down and get the ball, but can't wait to get back to mom). I think one of the other small ones does, but I have no clue about the two male dogs (a JRT and Luke).

I think they can kick the jumps, and maybe knock them  over, but I'm not sure. I saw a dog knock one over at the tournament we went to, and they continued the run with it that way. All but one of the dogs ran just fine with it like that, as if  they  had specifically practiced continuing to go over the jump if  it was knocked over. Those were all Border Collies though, and they could definitely clear it. I don't think I would still send a small dog over that. If it were set to his height, he could probably still clear the jump, but I think it would be more  of a struggle for him.

How did you make that board? I was trying with Luke to  click for pushing off with the back legs on a board, but that looks so much better than what I have. I would think also, you might want to start having him do more of a run up to the board, so he is at full speed. I'm not totally sure though. I'm just thinking, he can do it slow and close, but he needs to  be able to do it form a distance with the same speed he'll be approaching the real box at. I'm going to inquire about the price of a private with the person with the team we might join, and I'll let you know what she suggests (if  any of it can apply to bigger dogs). 

I think I'm going to try this to train the box turns for him. 

http://flyballdogs.com/scotia_dust_devils/Shoottrain.htm

How cool!  I wish we had Flyball around here, I think my Layla would be good at it.  She would go through hell or high water after a tennis ball. 

Right now we have her in agility I, and she is doing much better.  She would do jumps and tunnels all day, but walking on a beam is not her favorite thing, LOL.

 Organictroll, where do you live? Have you checked on flyball.org

 Here is my instructions for making a push board:

http://www.dutchbingo.net/personal/How%20to%20make%20a%20push%20board%20for%20flyball.pdf

Organictroll, I've found that it actually helps to build drive for something other than the tennis ball.  We have a few dogs obsessed with tennis balls and they have some problems.  One, they often come back slow because they race down to get the ball and once they have it from the box, they are already rewarded.  Dogs that do the sequence for a reward that comes at the end go out fast and come back FAST to get their reward.  Two, I see some dogs that just get crazy and run all over trying to gather and bite all the loose balls.  Most of the time we have dozens of balls rolling all over the ground and for dogs that find value in the tennis ball it can be very distracting or a waste of time having to constantly pick up so they can do their runs.  I like to treat the ball as neutral.  Since Nikon already is trained to retrieve he started picking up the tennis ball right away.  Pan is still working on "trade" drills where I get him all excited for a tug toy but he has to run out, fetch the tennis ball, and carry it back past a certain point in order to get his tug toy.

Liesje

I keep thinking he is too big, but they keep insisting we come back. 

I did flyball with one of my 75lb Labs. :)  Didn't really train much at home since many of the skills used in flyball were already instilled due to retriever training.   Funny off topic sort of story about the jumps.  Retrievers for field competitions are trained to "get in the cover" or some similar term which means, don't go around an obstacle, go over it.  This is said to the dog as it is leaving your side.  The instructor thought I was saying "get under the covers".  lol

Liesje

 Here is my instructions for making a push board:

http://www.dutchbingo.net/personal/How%20to%20make%20a%20push%20board%20for%20flyball.pdf

 

Organictroll, I've found that it actually helps to build drive for something other than the tennis ball.  We have a few dogs obsessed with tennis balls and they have some problems.  One, they often come back slow because they race down to get the ball and once they have it from the box, they are already rewarded.  Dogs that do the sequence for a reward that comes at the end go out fast and come back FAST to get their reward.  Two, I see some dogs that just get crazy and run all over trying to gather and bite all the loose balls.  Most of the time we have dozens of balls rolling all over the ground and for dogs that find value in the tennis ball it can be very distracting or a waste of time having to constantly pick up so they can do their runs.  I like to treat the ball as neutral.  Since Nikon already is trained to retrieve he started picking up the tennis ball right away.  Pan is still working on "trade" drills where I get him all excited for a tug toy but he has to run out, fetch the tennis ball, and carry it back past a certain point in order to get his tug toy.

The JRT in our class is this way. He is super ball motivated. He flies down (well, flies for him, he's an old man), and doesn't have nearly the same speed coming back unless he's got someone racing in the other lane. He is motivated by trying to beat the other dog, but in a competition, you can't always guarantee he'll be running back in time with the other dog to make that happen. 

I'm not completely sure yet if Luke slows down coming back, but the owner of the JRT and I think he might do it just a bit. It's not to the extent that the JRT does it. He just doesn't care about tugging at the end, or really about another type of toy too much right now. Right now he gets food on his return, and I am working on getting him motivated for a little ball on a rope that can get food stuffed in it (so it has ball, it has rope, and it has food) in order to keep him coming back  with as close to the same speed that he goes down with. He seems to be able to handle a small ball back over the jumps without losing it, but I know he might need to slow down a tiny bit to control it. A  large dog will probably never run into this issue. The other little issue a dog like  this can create, is that they may not interfere in the lanes, but Luke crosses over near the other dog if I don't grab him quickly at the end so he can try to grab their ball. This technically is not a foul of any sort and will not cause the team to have to rerun or lose, but it may get him "beat up" so  to speak with a dog who isn't super friendly. 

The issue if a dog is not really motivated at all to retrieve the ball would be the opposite, he loafs down to get the ball, and races back. One of the other dogs in the class does this. When she finally starts running down there, and she almost never starts immediately, she doesn't really run anywhere near full speed to get her ball. She is highly motivated to get back to her mom, so as soon as she has the ball, she flies back. 

 Last week, it definitely looked like he was loafing back. I need to work on things to  motivate him to get back quickly before he  makes too much of a habit out of that. I still haven't  seen him come over the jumps well enough, but I am going to try to get someone to take a video of him this week. A friend of mine (jokingly) called him the Quaalude dog, because he's usually so calm. He wants to see him acting like a nut at fly ball. Last week, he came over super fast during a recall over the jumps, and the trainer asked if I had seen it. Of course I hadn't, I had left him up with her at  the box, and ran down to catch him at the end.  I also got lucky and had a client cancel for Thursday, so I'm taking him over to see the trainer in NJ,  where two of the teams train. I was chatting with a friend about it on Saturday (a dog friend, at our dog walking group's holiday party) she said this trainer is good. I also found out a few of them are interested in it. The trainer in NJ doesn't have enough people apparently who want a class, but perhaps if a few of us ask her for it, we can get it. My current place is about the same distance for training, but has nothing for us in the way of teams. The teams in PA are all about the same distance from us, and there is a greater likelihood that if I move and stay around here, I'd go closer to the NJ teams than the PA stuff, so it would make more sense for me to go that way for a team anyway.