Desperately seeking cure for "cow pie" poo!!!!!

  We adopted Jessie when she was about a year old and had problems with soft stools for a few years. We finally changed her to a food with rice and that helped. She also has better stools on foods that are higher (4%) fiber as opposed to foods that have less ( 2%) fiber. Every dog is different, and what works for one dog may not work for another. You may need to try another food for her; good luck.

Many dogs have allergies to poultry and/or some grains.  When I use California Natural Lamb and Rice, my dogs have the best poops (the smallest, not very stinky, firm, and they break down fast like raw-fed dog poop).  The Cal Nat L&R is a "limited ingredient diet" so it is great for dogs that may have an allergy and/or sensitive stomach or digestion issue.  It is an "all life stages" food so is fine for any age dog.  I've tried a lot of different medium to high quality foods and this one consistently gives us the best poop (and the dogs love it).

My first question is -- is it explosive diarrhea (she can't wait to even get outside sometimes) or is it just unformed but she can control when she goes out?

 Explosive diarrhea is small intestine related.  Unformed poop is large intestine (in other words less of a digestive problem but the large intestine isn't holding onto it long enough to remove the needed water to form solid waste).

Honestly?  I would tell you to add a different type of vet -- I have had extremely good luck with TCVM (traditional Chinese veterinary medicine) because they look at the whole body -- diet is a HUGE part of what they do and it's not necessarily just avoiding this or that ingredient but it's understanding that certain things actually can not only be "not tolerated" but they can actually cause inflammation on their own.

Both chicken *and* rice are, in the oriental way of seeing things, inflammatory foods.  Both can *cause* inflammation and worsen it.  The Chi Institute is a qualifying agency for vet acupuncturists/herbologists -- in fact they teach acupuncture and herbology via the Chi Institute at the University of Florida at Gainesville.  If you go to the Chi website:  http://www.tcvm.com -- there is a vet locator on the left.  Holller if I can help you choose (my holistic vet is actually one of the faculty there so I have easy access to good information.)

Food switching can cause a plethera of problems because if there ARE intolerances in the diet then you are continually exposing the body to more and more and MORE potential problems/allergens.  So even doing an actual food trial on your own can be a good thing.  But I would not tell you to just switch endlessly -- that can actually truly spiral the problem out of control.

Having a chronic problem like this can cause quite a downward spiral as the vet tries more and more "stuff" (and it sounds like he may even have suspected inflammatory bowl or auto-immune problems).  I assume you've probably seen a ton of metranydazole a/k/a "Flagyl"??

Does **anything** calm it down?  Have you tried adding more fiber to the diet? 

In honesty, it sounds like you have tried a lot (which is exasperating in the extreme) -- so I'd honestly tell you to try something different. 

I'm **NOT** telling you to leave your vet and in no way am I telling you that your vet isn't good.  Vets aren't nutritionists.  They get some nutrition classes in vet school but not a lot -- which is why they tend to try to rely on "tried and true" names (which they learned to trust in vet school) to answer diet problems.  And that just doesn't work for some dogs.

Allergy testing can be really expensive.  Dr. Jean Dodds has come out with a new saliva testing: This is the text of an email I got from Hemopet (and this is different than the TCVM I was talking about but would be available thru any vet who wanted to do work with her).  Hemopet's website is http://www.hemopet.org and you can email Dr. Dodds at hemopet@hotmail.com -- she's danged good at responding for a lady who teaches all over the world.  This is the email:

Nutriscan  is now available.  Our revolutionary patented, canine food sensitivity and intolerance diagnostic test uses an important new approach to nutrition.  Salivary diagnostics can more accurately identify the foods to be avoided than can serum food “allergy” testing.

This salivary diagnostic system tests saliva for emerging food reactant antibodies in healthy dogs, as well as the existing antibodies in dogs with known or suspected food intolerance. 

The test kit can be obtained directly from Hemopet or your veterinarian can order the kit for you.  It is really a very simple procedure.  After following directions for collecting the saliva, and adding it to the special double-sleeved tube that we provide, the tube is sealed and sent to Hemopet for analysis.

Testing protocols are for gluten and other food ingredients.  The primary dietary antigens to be tested are: corn, wheat, soy, beef, eggs, and milk.  This food sensitivity diagnostic testing will identify pets needing appropriate personalized foods and treats. 

Nutiscan saliva screening should be used annually or more often, as warranted. 

After you complete our On Line Test Request Form  - please CLICK at the bottom form to SUBMIT—as it simplifies everything for everyone.

Best regards,

Jean and Hemopet

HEMOPET/HEMOLIFE
11561 Salinaz Ave.
Garden Grove, CA  92843
Tel# 714-891-2022 ; Fax # 7141-891-2123
www.hemopet.org

Liesje

).  The Cal Nat L&R is a "limited ingredient diet" so it is great for dogs that may have an allergy and/or sensitive stomach or digestion issue.

  I tried their low fat rice and lamb for Jessie because she has food allergies and chronic pancreatitis. I did a slow transition, taking about three weeks. She did horrible on it. She had gas several times a day and strained to pass stools. I think for a dog with a sensitive stomach related to a GI problem, the fiber source ( Jessie does best with beet pulp), amount of fiber, and amount of fat should be carefully considered.

jessies_mom

( Jessie does best with beet pulp),

Willow too.

The other thing you might want to try before changing foods is Forti-Flora.  It doesn't work for Willow but for most dogs it usually does.

I'm SO glad everyone else replied cos I am *not* the kibble person to know what to tell you.  I home cook (which I think is great but it's not for everyone) but the rest of these folks are going to know what to tell you to help with commercial food. Good luck!

WOW!  Thank you for all the advice!!!  Just to add to this, I did a little research tonight and the food I am giving her has 26% Protein, 15% fat, 4% fiber, zonc, selenium, vitamin E, omega 6 fatty acids, omega 3 fatty acids, glucosamine, chondroitin, Beet pulp and dried chicory root.  First 5 ingredients are chicken, chicken meal, cracked barley, millet, & brewers rice.  I'm hesitant to switch her food because I don't want to make an already yucky situation even worse, but if it will make it better, I'm willing to try.  I'm interested in this alternative medicine and the home cooking too.  Anything to make her as healthy as she can be.  Lots of things to think about.  I just want her to be a healthy and happy pup.  She's a healthy and active pup, unlike her mom who has to get up in the middle of the night to let her out :(  On a side note, I have a 10 lb toy poodle/pom mix that goes all night without going out.  HOWEVER, she has a slightly smaller stomach lol.

Cut back on her serving amounts at least by 1/3, if not by half for a few days.  Cow PIe POo is generally from overfeeding.  Then once you get a a solid poo, start slowly upping her feeding amounts. When you get soft poo again, back off amounts a little bit again and that is about how much you should feed.  If that doesn't work, then, yes it's possible the food doesn't agree with him.

HTH

Tiffani

shamrockmommy

Cut back on her serving amounts at least by 1/3, if not by half for a few days.  Cow PIe POo is generally from overfeeding

This has been my experience as well. The first thing I thought of was overfeeding...you might also look at any treats or other stuff she may get into regularly like strange animal poop (rabbit, deer, goose are commonly found in parks and owners don't always notice esp when they walk dogs on flexi's etc)....water from puddles, etc.

Cleo has cow pies and horrible gas on ANY food with Beet Pulp. So we stay away from that. We feed a L&R formula of a mid level food because anything high end causes a bunch of the former complaint. Apparently my dogs are strictly "beer budget" dogs...and that suits me and the pocketbook, just fine :)