Nutro Venison and Rice formula change; update; concerned about answers

 thanks for the heads up Janice - so glad that Jessie is doing well AND that the change doesn't make it necessary to swap foods!

 Thanks Karen.

Good luck with it. I used to feed Shadow Nutro Large Breed Adult Lamb Meal and Rice and he did great. Then they sold to an investment firm that, in turn, sold to Mars. Then they quit making that formula. And then reintroduced the formula. Only this time, Shadow was getting dry coat. And I had to add Missing Link. So, while they had the old formula name, they actually changed to formula, somehow, no doubt, to be cheaper to make.

  Thanks Ron. Jessie's been doing very well on this food for several months, with some fresh food additions. I add boiled turkey and egg white, plus some lean baked ground beef, to give her some good quality protein. I think the formula change may actually be an improvement. The manager at PetsMart said Nutro probably did it to take business away from Eukanuba, who has been having problems with manufacturing their food. In addition to being allergic to multiple food ingredients, Jessie also has chronic pancreatitis, so that's why I chose this formula. She was on California Natural Rice and Lamb for awhile, which is 7% fat, but she frequently had gas and her stomach made lots of rumbly noises. She actually does much better on it the Nutro even though it's 10% fat. She has very little gas plus she has more energy. Her coat is also much better; it was very dry on the CN. When you have a sensitive dog, a formula change in the food they're eating can be a nightmare; fortunately, this one wasn't a problem. I'm sorry it doesn't work for Shadow anymore. Is the missing link helping?

Shadow did well on the previous incarnation of his formula because it was very simple. Lamb meal, rice, and some minerals and that was it. His metabolism is siberian and does best on extremely simple food. The metabolism is designed to get a huge amount of energy out of a little bit of food and he regulates his own intake. He usually only eats 1 to 1.5 cups of food or about 1 to 1 1/4 lbs of moist food, like Fresh Pet Select.

The newer Nutro formula has different things in it. 

Now, food companies are coming out with limited ingredient formulas, which I think is important for some dogs.

  Not sure I'm going to keep feeding this to Jessie. I called their number with a few more questions. On the ingredient list, sodium bicarbonate is now listed right after the oils instead of calcium carbonate. According to their website, it's a source of sodium. Salt is listed just a few ingredients down from it. So I asked why the change, and the answer was to improve the taste. When I said I was worried about the increased sodium, she said the amount of sodium is the same as before. That doesn't seem right to me; how can they add more sodium to improve the taste without increasing the amount? Also, the amount to be fed has increased significantly even though the calories have only decreased slightly, so I asked about that too. She said it's because the dogs were so hungry during the feeding trials. Huh? Yeah, I believe that. Also, they don't mention feeding trials on the bag; just that it's formulated according to AAFCO guidelines for adult maintenance. If they did need to make it taste better, I'm thinkin' it's because they added the pea protein so they could use less venison meal, which affected the taste. Jessie loves the original formula. She has done so well on this food, better than any other low fat foods I've tried, and I'm not freaking out but definitely not happy with their answers.

Janice, could it be  that sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) tastes so much "saltier" than what the regular "salt" they use is.  So, they might not necessarily be adding more salt just that it has a stronger, better taste?  And/or they could be reducing the amount of regular salt to make up the difference. 

I'd say leave her on it if she's still doing well considering how serious a flare up could be.  I understand your concerns though for sure.  I'd probably just make sure she's not getting much more salt anywhere else like in any treats. 

willowchow

Janice, could it be  that sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) tastes so much "saltier" than what the regular "salt" they use is.

  Good point Lori; I didn't consider that.

willowchow

I'd say leave her on it if she's still doing well considering how serious a flare up could be.  I understand your concerns though for sure.  I'd probably just make sure she's not getting much more salt anywhere else like in any treats

  Spoken from experience with Willow, and thanks. You're right; a flare up could be fatal. I make her treats, so extra sodium isn't a problem. Also, I feed her about 3/4 can of Wellness duck and rice too, so that cuts down on the amount of Nutro she gets. But explanation about the feeding trials really doesn't make sense; I think the person I spoke with may have made that answer up.

krbshappy71

I was just comparing it to my current dog food, Nature's Recipe Venison & Rice.

 Jessie's allergic to the yeast in that food, but thanks for the suggestion. Nature's Recipe does have very good customer service though and has always been great about answering my questions.

I just joined this forum after a Google search on this very topic. 

I have 3 beagles.  The oldest, 8, has been plagued by allergies of all kinds in his lifetime, including food allergies.  We had him stabilized on hypoallergenic food, but once our 2nd dog came along, I wanted to try switch to ONE food that both could eat without killing our budget.  After much trial and error, the Venison and Rice formula worked out for him!  YAY!  So, for the past 3+ years, we've had a happy house full of beagles!

Our allergy prone dog also has issues with his anal glands, and they need to be expressed about once every 2 months (more frequently during the Spring allergy season).   So, I was confused when he started having anal gland problems in late October / early November.  I am taking him to the vet just about every week for an expression.  yuck.  His poor bum is so sore.

Our vet mentioned that it may be his food.  That made me cringe due to the difficulty we have finding a food he can eat without a reaction.

THEN our 4yr old, who has never had her anal glands expressed before, started having issues. Our 3rd had hers done for the first time as well (she's a rescue, but we've had her for over 7 months with no issues).  GAH!  That's when I went to Google and found this thread. 

Could the changes Nutro made be affecting my dogs like this?   :(

Left to right:

Gracie - 4yrs (rescue)

Marcie - 4yrs

Schroeder - 8 yrs

I'm sorry I don't have the answers but I wanted to say I'm glad you found us and I love your beagles!!

PS-I'm sure someone will be along to answer your question soon!

Lil Lucy -- I too have a beagle with anal gland issues.  A vet friend recommended replacing three meals a week with oatmeal (the old fashioned kind, not the quick-cooking).  It's been like a miracle cure.  If your allergy dog can tolerate oats, it might be worth trying.

lil_lucy

Could the changes Nutro made be affecting my dogs like this?   :(

Yes. Not one formula is good for all dogs. The fact that the newer Lamb Meal and Rice from Nutro doesn't work for my dog doesn't mean that it won't work for another dog.

But here's an important distintion I have found. It's not always a food allergy, per se. Which is actually usually an allergy to one protein compund or another. Sometimes, it is that the food changes the dog's immune system response, making them vulnerable to something environmental such as an inhalant or something that can get on their hide, or even just challenge the response of their alimentary processes.