Kenya's son agility vid

Bogey looks like he's having a great time!

Aww, he's a creeper!!! I get a kick out of watching dogs creep on the starting line...probably not so funny to his handler, but it's funny to watch in videos!!

He looks like he's enjoying himself though!

 When I saw him over a year ago, he not only creeped but the handler turned to call him and he was already two jumps into the course!

Kenya's boys love agility.  Her son Lance does several agility venues and has over a dozen titles, many agility.

That was great to watch. I kept thinking "how does the handler keep track of where to go next?" My poor dogs would be in big trouble with me and the way I get turned around.

 Nice dog! I always love seeing fast GSDs :)

 I never realized that Kenya had been bred.

She was bred before I owned her, she was spayed when I got her.  Her breeder did some crosses between lines (with some interesting/cool results!) until settling on German show lines after breeding Am lines for a long time.

Liesje

She was bred before I owned her, she was spayed when I got her.  Her breeder did some crosses between lines (with some interesting/cool results!) until settling on German show lines after breeding Am lines for a long time.

 I knew you had not bred her. Do any of her puppies have the same temperament faults she does? I am always curious on that, as I have seen some cases where temperament was greatly improved upon in the next generation and some where the puppies had nearly the exact issues.

 I wanted to add that I am not at all trying to pick on you/kenya or her breeder. I have a dog that I co-owned and bred twice who has a less than ideal temperament, although it isn't "bad" I liked it less than my other dogs. I was obligated to breed her and was extremely careful with the males I used, selecting heavily for temperament. In both litters she produced really well - a high percentage of her puppies are really nice performance dog or have the drive/temperament to be. None have the temperament traits that I fault in her, expect for a heightened tendency to be territorial, if not properly managed/trained.

I've met both Lance and Bogey, watched them compete, and they seem fine.  They seem more like laid back German show lines or American lines, not super drivey just very chill.  I've never met their sire (GRCH SG1 Vando vom Weber Haus IPO1 OFA H/E).  It would be interesting to meet him.  I think Kenya has a lot of drive but that it gets inhibited by her neurosis, if that makes sense.  It's like she has no control over a lot of what she does and we haven't had a lot of luck breaking through that (I'm currently deciding between stronger drugs, or just letting it be and managing certain aspects of her life).  Everyday there are these moments where I get glimpses of the drive and see her really happy and free.  I don't know a lot of details about her history, but I wonder if this was something that became more expressed as she matured, in combination with an event that was very traumatic for her (the reason why I have her).  I believe that "nerviness" is a function of both the threshold or what triggers a nervous reaction and the ability to recover.  Kenya for example has a higher threshold than Coke (many things startle him that she couldn't care less about), but what she lacks is the ability to recover.  Whereas an umbrella opening might upset Coke only momentarily, it might take a physical altercation to upset Kenya but she will carry that with her for....who knows how long...forever?  She has really changed a lot just since I've had her, as a whole not really for the better or worse, but certain patterns of behavior come and go.  Her lick granuloma is basically gone but now she has to be crated because she destroys anything plastic.  She used to submissive pee, now she eats poop.  Stuff like that. My family all think I'm crazy and that she's the absolute best dog ever.  In fact I have a friend who seriously wants her.  Settles in the house, very obedience, trustworthy (when she's not in the plastic phase), quiet, not destructive, no health concerns, has an iron stomach, athletic and active, easy to train, does really well in trials (not really nerved up by environment which seems ironic), apathetic towards other dogs, outgoing and receptive toward most people....pretty much everything you want except she's a basket case!

When I got her I really knew nothing about breeding and not much more about training and performance.  She does have a pretty nice working pedigree and there are some pretty awesome working dogs also sired by her father.  I have interacted with her mother on several occasions but not before she was really old and she was already deaf and partially blind (she died recently and was 14 or 15) so I never got a clear picture for her temperament.

Knowing what I've learned about Kenya, about breeding in general, and about temperament, I would never breed her or a dog like her but I also give the breeder credit for stepping out of her comfort zone and being willing to make changes even while she was enjoying success.  She did Am lines for so long and even had the top male GSD in 1999 but didn't like how things were going with Am lines and wanted to change.  I know many breeders abhor crossing lines but I have respect for people who admit things are not going in the direction they like and are willing to make changes even if it involves a few "experiments" along the way.  I'm guessing she found that the unpredictability of crossing lines was not worth it if the temperament she wants is consistently achievable with certain lines of German show lines.

Don't worry, I'm not feeling picked on!  I'm very picky myself and to be honest, have yet to find any breeder that really does things *exactly* how I would.

Actually your comment about Kenya having a lot of drive but it being limited by her temperament issues is sort of the case with Belle too. Belle is very intense and has decent drive but she tends to shut down too quickly if the situation isn't ideal. Usually it is that she really dislikes being around strange dogs - she isn't aggressive so much as miserable. She had a couple bad experiences with strange dogs and seems to have never really gotten over it. Sometimes other things cause her to give up too and she will give up if she thinks I didn't like what she did. I joke that she is a diva and refuses to work unless everything is perfect but it certainly isn't a good trait to have! Left to just my choice, I don't know if I would have bred her or not. She has an interesting pedigree, a lot of nice half siblings and her structure is really nice plus she has a lot of good temperament traits too. In a way I'm glad she was bred, as it showed me that some dogs may have something to offer even if they aren't ideal themselves - she produced a lot of her good traits in an improved way. She didn't have an ideal start, as she wasn't socialized well until 4 months than became deathly ill at 6 months but I think a tendency towards poor recovery is likely part of her genetic make up. The males she was bred to are both super sound, unflappable sorts with a good background for sound temperament.

 Kenya sounds interesting for sure! Is Kenya a mixture of working and show (German or American) lines? It sounds like she has a lot of the traits she should have for a good working temperament but what she is lacking is one or more of the "make or break" traits, if that makes sense. I also think that sometimes these sorts of lacking traits can create rather neurotic behavior in dogs who are otherwise more work oriented. It's too bad you weren't able to really evaluate her mother as it would have been interesting - great she lived to such an old age though! And it is nice that people are enjoying Kenya's puppies and "doing stuff" with them.

I didn't think that you would take offense to my question, since you've been pretty upfront when discussing temperament and drive :)

She is actually pure working lines.  Fero and Lord are pretty well known working dogs, and Fado is the WUSV Sieger and linebred on Bernd Lierberg.  Kenya's father Narro scored 100-96-100 at one of his SchH trials in Germany.  He also lived to be 14.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/401054.html

 Here is the standard run for the double Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InLdBBnxYJY

I was at that trial, in that class, and I NQ'd too! I didn't pull back enough for the wrap and Belle back jumped. We doubled on the first day. 

He is a handsome dog. Would I know Lance? Is he in the area? The name sounds familiar but then again there are a lot of dogs named Lance. I vaguely remember watching Bogey run. I just did not know it was Kenya's son.

I love that trial at MSU. Fabulous facilities, great footing and 2 out of 3 good judges.  I ran Friday and Saturday, the standard judge Sat (jumpers on Sun I am sure) was AWFUL! It did not effect my run, but watching this guy RACE handlers to the contacts (like that will get a dog to hold) and then being in the wrong place MANY times either having handlers run into him or tripping them up. His course was 'ok' but I will stay away from him. I don't remember his name but I still have the premium.

Ann

As we've sort of discussed before, Shimmer is in a lot of ways very similar to Kenya. I know I have had some different challenges teaching Shimmer compared to teaching Gaci, with the sensitivity issues. Although on the other hand, when working in ideal frame of mind Shimmer has waaaaaaaaaaaaay more drive than Gaci - actually, that's not correct - they both have very strong drives, but for different things, and Shimmer's is much easier to channel into working for me *G* and I really think when she comes into her own with the sport she will be a better agility dog (well, the uber-long legs and longer body build give her a bit of benefit over Gaci too). Gaci is so much more of an independent thinker, she's the real terrier that Shimmer admittedly is not.

Have you done any/much agility with Kenya?

Yeah, I've taken lots of training and did some CPE competition with her.  She was also in training with her previous owners (her breeder, and Kim the woman in the videos above).  I never did AKC competition myself (I have volunteered work at AKC competitions) because it's so expensive.