Conformation Handling - lead/collar positioning

Corinthian

 You are holding the collar up. The dog wants to put its head down. You fight it because you want the head up.  It feels its air being cut off, it puts the head up to relieve the feeling. - it's clear.

As mud. lmbo.

ETA: BTW...love the name. I am SO seeing the late, great Ricardo Montalban in my head right now trying to extoll the virtues of "Rrrreal Corinthian Leather". He was so awesome!

 None of the pictures you have are of a dog with a collar up on the neck. Near the jawline as Millan likes to use.  The sole purpose of such a placement is to asphyxiate the dog.

The OP that started this thread reads:

In the show ring, the leash (more often the lead is collar inclusive, but regardless) is generally at the top of the neck to hold the head high - does not mean the dog is being choked.

Why does it matter where the collar is held?  I hold the collar under the chin for aesthetics.  Key phrase there being "I hold", as in, that's where I hold it with my hand, and my thumb is looped through the collar (which is a martingale or on a dead ring).  The dog is not even moving, let along putting pressure on the leash.  This way I can also stroke his chin at the same time, which he likes.  Most people here are saying they gait their dog on a loose lead.  Also it's just ring etiquette to always have control over your collar/lead so you are ready to go and move your dog without fumbling around with your equipment.

Last I checked, Millan is not a professional handler...

 Yes it does.  Cutting off the air is quick and easy up top and the dogs on the pictures would require more force to achieve the same thing.

 The ONLY time I have used a collar to cut off a dog's air supply was when the dog was latched onto a dog or human, or coming  up the lead at me. Cutting off the air supply (actually CHOKING a dog) would be ineffective for training, AND for showing. The dog has to think, for both. It's quite effective for STOPPING, and for opening the mouth, though.

I do know folks who use a similar move to teach their dogs to retrieve, but I can't  imagine that being necessary.

Don't worry, I have a pretty good idea of anatomy too, considering I spent four years in Biology for my degree, and I actually have shown dogs to boot.

Rest assured, non-show folks, that we aren't all out there strangling the bejeezus out of our dogs just to get them to hold their heads up. Some of us do just hold it there for asthetics, and to keep it out of the way of the judge's hands-on examination  I've walked dogs on regular collars who have choked their own tongues blue, and it's certainly different than a dog who has been trained to gait around a ring or to stand on a table with the leash out of the way.

Corinthian

Cutting off the air is quick and easy up top and the dogs on the pictures would require more force to achieve the same thing.

Liesje

Last I checked, Millan is not a professional handler...

Doesn't matter, what matters is the position and why.  And the reason remains to choke the dog with ease.

Corinthian

Doesn't matter, what matters is the position and why.  And the reason remains to choke the dog with ease.

Sorry, I am not following your logic. If numerous people here, who show dogs, have said that they don't place the lead up high to choke the dog, then why do you feel that is the reason for the position of the collar?

Can you offer some photo or video examples of what you mean?

Meh, to me it seems like an opinion and one not open to any input. Not so much about logic, and much as "right-ness", methinks.

Pit_Pointer_Aussie

Sorry, I am not following your logic. If numerous people here, who show dogs, have said that they don't place the lead up high to choke the dog, then why do you feel that is the reason for the position of the collar?

Here, let's watch this dog show clip, please let me know which or how many of these dogs are being asphyxiated by their owner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d18owLJWwFY

 I have not shown dogs but have had a hellacious puller.  When we first got her we were told to use a choke collar high up on her neck (the area in question) and believe me, if she wanted to pull/put her head down, she just went ahead and did it--she would just pull you down too if necessary--and she was not huge--50 lbs.  Therefore, I have a hard time believing that somehow the threat of choking is what is keeping these dogs' heads up--it would be extremely obvious, especially with the medium/large breeds that the dogs were resisting.

 Which has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Corinthian

Liesje

Last I checked, Millan is not a professional handler...

 

Doesn't matter, what matters is the position and why.  And the reason remains to choke the dog with ease.

Yes, I'm sure that's why we do the OFF LEAD fast lap....