What books do you have?

many dogs don't seem to realize they have a hind end, and backing up IS weird for dogs, especially small dogs who can usually manage to get anywhere by going forward (huge dogs have to learn how to back up from a young age ). Have you done any "hind end awareness" work with her? walk through a ladder, put front end up on a block and then circle around by moving hind feet, clicking for any hind foot movement?  these exercises are fun, and will help you get that "back" eventually.  Most of my dogs just sat down or spun or just stood there and got bumped into when I tried the "move into their space" thing, the "coffee table sofa channel" has been much more effective for me.

Yup! We've been doing a good bit of heeling through a ladder. She "got it" on the second try.  I'm looking for just the right block to put her front feet on and teach her to circle. Any time she gets stuck between a chair and wall and has to back out, I say "back" and reward her. It'll click, one of these days, and she'll do it beautifully. It took less time to teach her "pivot" (which is awesome and actually made a judge grin, yesterday), but that's ok. She'll get it 

Not to be OT, but KMODT isn't necessarily for hard dogs only.  We'll be going thru the full method starting on Monday w/Jada.

As for backing up - I think you're using the right capturing idea, Jennie.  I did a similar thing w/Gracie - I just saw her doing it and gave it a name.  Then we practiced up against walls, between parked cars, etc.  As you are trying to finesse it, you can do it against a shorter wall, then against a sidewalk/curb, then PVC pipes if you need it.  The key for us was making sure to keep my left shoulder facing forward so that I wasn't looking back toward her - and then "forcing" her to curl around me.  If the dog starts to curl around you as she backs up, you can pick up your left leg so they don't want to walk/back into it - that's what worked for me.

If you get your "back" really dependable, you will likely beat a good portion of the competitors.  It seems so many people give up on training it and just throw away 3-10 points knowing their dog doesn't perform it right.  (At least that has been my experience.)  GOOD LUCK, Jennie!!

I did consider the "give up" method, but ditched it as soon as I did. I've seen too many people (already!!) do very bad versions of backing up.

Today, in rally group, Emma and I did practice backing up quite a bit. We had to keep moving, because the gnats were eating us alive, so we took advantage of a the nice, long fence around the baseball field. She *is* getting better (she actually... steps back, now, and I reward her like crazy!), so that's a good thing. Eventually, it'll click. I like the idea of practicing against lower and lower things, moving down to a PVC pipe.  

jennie_c_d

I like the idea of practicing against lower and lower things, moving down to a PVC pipe.  

it's what my trainer suggested to me before I started training G's "back-up".  When their feet/legs touch the lower "barriers", it reminds them that they still have to keep in-line even if nothig is truly blocking them.

Jennie, I also found that Gracie learned the "place" of heel all at about the same time and when her HEEL place was super-fantastic (meaning I could turn in any direction, spin around ON her - like in her face, and she stayed in heel position) it made learning "back-up" exceptionally quick.  Practice her heeling a LOT with tons of turns, and practice her heel finish so that she understands Heel as a place to go to, and you may have the same experience we did. Having shared it with others, they've reported it worked for them, too.

Emma's heel is fantastic, which is what confuses me a little. She does back up on left pivots and left turns, and I think she even backs a little on 360° lefts. When I just back up in a straight line, though, she wants to come to front.  We do "where is heel?" games where I just move all sorts of crazy ways and she has to find heel to get the cookie That helps a LOT with keeping focus and position, but the backing up just hasn't seemed to "click". She'll get it, soon, I'm sure. She's a smart girl. One of these days, she's going to go "OHHHH!!! That's what you wanted!!!" and be a perfect backer upper

Hey Jennie - Want to update this thread with your NEWS about Emma's backing up???  (HOOORAAAAYY!!!!)

Oh, yes! Emma BACKS UP!!!

We were doing "find heel"s and tight, tight 360°s in the kitchen. I had her backing around me on 360° lefts. She was doing great, so I put her against the wall, and she backed up! She gets it, sort of. She wants to still back around me, but we'll work that out, easily I'm very proud of my rotten doggie. 

mudpuppy

huge dogs have to learn how to back up from a young age 

that made me LOL - the first day we had Bugs he dropped a tennis ball and it rolled behind a couch.  he went behind it then hesitated and then backed all the way back out.  cracked me up.  I had never seen a dog back up like that - but it turned out to be a specialty.  First trip to the lake - he went in and backed out.  He still backs out of places that a 'normal' dog would just turn around and come out forwards.

Now I know that there is a difference in what jennie is doing and Bugsy but back up is one of our rock solid commands and I don't ever recall teaching it but it sure comes in handy