Dog Community

Posted : 3/9/2006 12:08:03 PM

Along the lines of this thread - if when the dog knows he is going to get a reward for performing, it can be construed as bribing (if the dog knows the command) - should I change the way I feed Wesley his meals? Right now, he eats twice a day - I put the food in his bowl on the counter and over the course of a 10 minute or so training session, I give a command or a string of commands and reward with some kibble, from my hand, for performance. He knows that he is doing what I am telling him, for his meal. I assumed that this was the way I was supposed to make him work for his food and make sure that all food comes directly from me (not the floor or the bowl, by some mysterious stroke of luck)... Maybe I am slowly teaching him that he only needs to do things if the bowl of food is on the counter??

mudpuppy

Posted : 3/13/2006 11:01:51 AM

Nothing wrong with feeding the bulk of the meal that way, as long as you also do training sessions away from the bowl. Pocket a handful of food and ask for random behaviors at random times and places.

sillysally

Posted : 3/14/2006 1:57:24 PM

I use treats a lot when I am first teaching something, them randomly once she has it down. I am *just* starting to do clicker training, so with the clicker sessions we are using losts of treats for things she already know so that it reenforces the idea that click=correct=treat.

dasher

Posted : 3/14/2006 2:40:09 PM

In response to [font="times new roman"][size="3"][font="arial"][size="2"]schleide:[/size][/font][/size][/font] IMO, I personally don't consider using treats as bribing. Once my dogs understand a particular behavior they will do it regardless of if I have a treat in my hand. They also don't always get a food reward for doing something, they may get the ball thrown, or a big pat/rub and "GOOD DOG" verbal praise. What I do consider a bribe is when a dog will not perform a particular behavior unless it sees the cookie/cheese/etc first. I have seen dogs who do this...when their handler asks for a behavior, the dog does nothing but keep looking at the handler's hand (if its empty), as soon as the treat comes out, the dog then does the behavior. That is what I consider bribing a dog. Now I do know that sometimes when initially teaching a behavior "bribing" or "luring" is used. Some people use it when first teaching a puppy to sit or lie down a treat is used to lure the dog into position (I know I have done this). Eventually the treat is weeded out and hopefully the dog will then do the behavior without the initial treat. I guess that is my distinction anyway... a bribe is when a dog will not do a behavior unless it sees the treat first. I am in no way a professional, just my personal observation.

nfowler

Posted : 3/16/2006 12:27:47 AM

I use treats the way spiritdogs does (and many of the other posters)--as a "you never know when you'll get it" motivator. Ellie is easily distracted, and she is a busybody, too, and it's hard to not use something when she's struggling. She's great for about twice on each command, but after that . . .

Her brother, Murphy, though, will do most things without needing to be given food. Praise works for him.

Quite opposite of each other, actually.

nfowler

Posted : 3/16/2006 12:28:43 AM

PS--loving Dodger. I had a dog very similar to him (a walker hound) for 12 years. Yes, hard to train but a blast to live with.

spiritdogs

Posted : 3/16/2006 7:45:15 AM

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

Isn't it odd how people often TEASE dogs with toys, showing the dog what he's going to get if he obeys, before giving commands? yet that is never seen as "bribery".

Dogs have to eat. Might as well make them work for a living.

mudpuppy makes a good point. The dog shouldn't see the toy first, unless it is being used as a lure to get a first time behavior. It is the uncertainty and occasional reward that keeps a known behavior happening. Just as you would hide food in an unseen bait bag, the toy can be hidden in a back pocket or a training apron, only coming out occasionally to reward the dog for a job well done. Reward based training works really well, but it's like any other method in that if you don't apply the principles correctly your result will not be the one you expected.

Treats in Training...