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[color=#cc6699]Thanks again for your help, but EEK at that protein level- 18%. Yikes! That is extremely low. I'm sure it has it's place for certain health issues, but form my small breed dog I'm looking for a food around 26%-38% protein...

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I sure can't relate to a small dog..but I add real cooked meat to Bubblegums food JUST for the reason to get more meat added to her kibble.  I cook enough for a few days and keep in fridge,,just put it on top for her suppers. I do add more protein in the AM by giving her a raw egg each morning. I have canned food here in case I didn't get the time to cook meat, but it doesn't have as much meat as I really want for her.

I think we had a similiar discussion a while back about, I forget, maybe probiotics and kelp? I'll say the same thing again - it might work better to try a simpler food and just add what you want. It could be very frustrating for you to find the "perfect" food and then have them change the formula, or end up not being able to get it for some reason.''

It seems you'l have to give somewhere. Either a) try out one of your suspect ingredients, like barley, or b) bite the bullet and try out one of the online food ordering services, or c) give up the convenience of a "all in one" scoop and forget it formula.

Any reason why you are insisting on such a high protein level? It doesn't seem like much when foods like EVO are so popular, but only 14-16% of the protein is used by the dog for building muscle mass (unless the dog is growing or geriatric), the rest just goes to make glucose and the nitrogen ends up in the urine. So the 22-24% protein is actually ok, unless you have a reason you want your dog on higher protein levels...

And why avoid the Barley? Just because its similar to wheat doesn't make it wheat. You could always try it and see how your pup does...

Is there a reason you want to switch foods (don't like the current one?) or are you just wishing there was something better?

http://balanceit.com/

This is a website I learned about today where you can have a nutritionist make a balanced homecooked meal plan for you based on the ingredients YOU select. So you can have a formula with your specifications, and leave out all the ingredients you don't want. I'm not sure what it costs, but its pretty neat.

Brookcove- Yup, that was awhile ago that I was wanting a food with the probiotics and kelp. I'm always tweaking the food plan based on Gingerbread's needs and things I learn. I would prefer to find a food that has everything I want instead of adding things separately. I really feel better knowing that it's all balanced to go together properly, plus it gets really expensive purchasing separate supplements.

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

Any reason why you are insisting on such a high protein level? It doesn't seem like much when foods like EVO are so popular, but only 14-16% of the protein is used by the dog for building muscle mass (unless the dog is growing or geriatric), the rest just goes to make glucose and the nitrogen ends up in the urine. So the 22-24% protein is actually ok, unless you have a reason you want your dog on higher protein levels...

And why avoid the Barley? Just because its similar to wheat doesn't make it wheat. You could always try it and see how your pup does...

Is there a reason you want to switch foods (don't like the current one?) or are you just wishing there was something better?

http://balanceit.com/

This is a website I learned about today where you can have a nutritionist make a balanced homecooked meal plan for you based on the ingredients YOU select. So you can have a formula with your specifications, and leave out all the ingredients you don't want. I'm not sure what it costs, but its pretty neat.

Misskiwi- My understanding is that small dogs need a higher protein level (as in Solid Gold Just a Wee Bit with 28% protein). I just don't think the foods around 22-24% protein are adequate for most dogs, especially small ones.

Barley is a high gluten grain and I don't see where it's actually healthy. Plus with Gingerbread being allergic to wheat it seems he would be more likely to be allergic to another similar grain. It's just something I'd prefer to avoid.

Homecooking is really not an option. With the cost and preparation time, even making batches at a time, I know it would not work.

Starsenchis- I'll definitely check into the Wysong supplement you mentioned.

We were told today that Barley was one of the lowest grains on the glycemic index... I had assumed that meant they had lower levels of gluten. Are those two things related or am I just more confused from my class???

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

We were told today that Barley was one of the lowest grains on the glycemic index... I had assumed that meant they had lower levels of gluten. Are those two things related or am I just more confused from my class???

They're totally different things. Glycemic index just refers to how quickly that food will convert into sugar and cause blood sugar to rise. Barley is one of the highest gluten grains. Here's a link about glutens:

http://www.renewedhealth.ca/welcome.asp

This is a great article on gluten and pets:
 
[linkhttp://dogtorj.tripod.com/id1.html]http://dogtorj.tripod.com/id1.html[/link]
 
Luvntzus, I'm with you 100% on the gluten free thing (and barley is just as bad as wheat), and I think protein is very important for small dogs- or any dog for that matter.
Usually foods with the lower protein amounts have higher grain content and dogs do not need grain at all.
 
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: starsenchis

This is a great article on gluten and pets:

[linkhttp://dogtorj.tripod.com/id1.html]http://dogtorj.tripod.com/id1.html[/link]

Luvntzus, I'm with you 100% on the gluten free thing (and barley is just as bad as wheat), and I think protein is very important for small dogs- or any dog for that matter.
Usually foods with the lower protein amounts have higher grain content and dogs do not need grain at all.

I'm glad I'm not the only one!

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

We were told today that Barley was one of the lowest grains on the glycemic index... I had assumed that meant they had lower levels of gluten. Are those two things related or am I just more confused from my class???

Actually, about a year ago, a vet wrote an article that ended up in the Whole Dog Journal.  This vet also came on this forum.  If you look through Sept's or maybe Oct's or Nov's archives you will find an article called "barley, wheat, rice" or something like that.   It went something like this...

Epilepsy is a sign of  severe allergies.  He found that the more sticky the grain is when mashed up, the more likely it is to cause siezures in epileptic dogs.  It has something to do with the dog not being able to digest it.  I guess if it's stickier when mashed, it's harder to digest, the dogs body reacts against it, and causes siezures (again I'm just paraphrasing the way I understood it)  These grains include (in order of most sticky to least sticky) barley, wheat, rice, corn.  Yes, barley is the biggest culprit.  This vet found that by feeding a grain free diet (he recommended Natural Balance Potato and Duck) the siezures compltely disappeared.

Actually, now that I've read Star...'s attachment, that is exactly what the article in the Whole Dog Journal said

When you take the kibble out of the freezer, is it safe to store it at room temperature?? Or does the moisture in the kibble when frozen and thawed make it slightly wet?

It doesn't seem  to bother it, in my experience.

I would stay on a food like Nat. Balance fish and give fresh chicken etc... if you want to up the protein. That would be easy. I do that. I also give cooked and mashed veggies to Trudy. I cook veggies and sweet potato then use the food processor to mash them. Trudy LOVES IT!!! I feed that to my parrot also.

I have fed my Dog NB Allergy formulas for months and she does fine on them.  I can't see why people get upset over a 1-2% difference in protein.  Buy a can of salmon and throw a tablespoon in each feeding for a small dog, and you will wind up with probably a 3% increase in protein, if that is your goal.   .  

I want to add that the protein values given on the bag of kibbles are minimum values.  If you remember a (long) while back, I did some testing on various popular kibbles in the nutrition lab.  I found that while they did stick pretty close to the minimum values, there were some ranges that came 2-3% above the minimum value listed on the kibble.