Supplements for hip dysplasia

HIGH blood pressure?  A dog?  Wow -- how are the kidneys?  High blood pressure in a dog is VERY unusual.  Has this been going on long?  Has the thyroid been checked (hyPER thyroid can cause high blood pressure -- and even that would be unusual but treatable)

any of the nsaids are very very hard on the liver and kidneys.  You will want to be doing milk thistle (LOTS and LOTS of milk thistle -- 2-3 times the adult human dose at least twice a day) along with what you are doing simply to help protect the other organs.

There are supplements like glucosamine & chondroitin ... there are other things like Sam-e (which given the joint pain AND the potential for liver toxicity, the Sam-e would be a darned good choice because it would help both).

Has your vet indicated to you that these are unusual diagnoses to go together?  Have you had this dog evaluated by an ortho vet or even better you might want to go to Auburn for an evaluation of the whole situation (that can be cheaper than you might think -- often a vet school is a darned good choice)

And truly -- one of the best things you might consider (especially if you feel really comfortable with the diagnoses you've had regarding the  hypertension and hips) would be to try a vet who does TCVM (Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine) -- because that could help BOTH the hypertension and hip pain a great deal. 

http://www.tcvm.com   There is a "locator" on the left -- just plug in your zip code and it will tell you who is near you.

I'm NOT telling you to leave your vet -- not at all.  But rather ADDING a vet who does acupuncture and Chinese herbals (which are strong, effective medicine) can be a huge help to maintaining problems like this.  If you want to know more about TCVM, or how to pick a vet feel free to email me.

She's had the high blood pressure for over a year now.  I don't remember exactly when it started, but it's been over a year now since we identified it.  We are on medicine twice a day for it and we see an internal medicine specialist every 3 months to get checked out.  The high blood pressure is pretty much under control, at least as much as a condition can be.

My main concern with the supplements is overdosing or giving supplements that should not be given with her existing meds.  We are scheduled to see her internal medicine specialist this week and will try to get an appointment with a vet who can give us more info concerning her hips.

I grew up with a Springer Spaniel who had hip dysplasia, but didn't show signs until 10 or 11 and lived to be 14.  I know different dogs are affected differently, but it just tears me up that she's only 5 and already showing quite badly.  Although, the vet says something aggravated it, and if we can just control the pain and discomfort enough that she should return to what she was like before. 

What I don't understand is what could have caused this sudden turn.  Whatever happened to her, happened in a span of about 3 hours.  We were all outside doing yard work last weekend.  We left to go run some errands, and when we returned (about 3 hours later) she was limping very badly.  She was perfectly normal with no signs of any hip problems before we left.  (We knew she had dysplasia because of x-rays done when she was 2, but she had never shown any signs of her hips bothering her at all.)

(Sorry for the rambling, just trying to my thoughts and info down.)

 We dealt with hip dysplasia for 10 years on my rott mix. At a young age he developed bilateral hip dysplasia, it has been several years since he passed, but let try to remember. He had a Stage 4 on one side and a stage 3 that later progressed to stage 4. By age 4 his pain was so bad that we had to do surgery. We were lucky at the time that our teaching hospital had the leading expert on hip dysplasia. He had a hip replacement done on the stage 4 hip. At the time the expert told us that there was no reason to do replacements.

Since you had xrays done at age 2, did you have followup xrays done when this happened? Once the xrays are done they will know what stage it is. It concerns me that your vet says she will return to normal if given a chance.....no way to know that unless you have done xrays and the dysplasia has not progressed (I will go back and read your post, maybe I missed that),

You ask what can happen in the span of 3 hours, well most likely it did not happen in 3 hours, but that something happened it aggravate it. My lab who was perfectly healthy was just scratching his back on the floor when he ruptured a disk and needed emergency surgery. My not so smart corgi mix decided to climb a tree when she got stuck where the tree divides into 2 trunks and pulled so hard that she ruptured both ACLS. 

We did lots of supplements pre and post surgery. As for doses they were all determined through research and vet recommendations. Here is what we used: We started with Adequan injections then transitioned to glucosamine and chondroitin, and MSM, omega 3 fatty acids. There was something else we used, but I can not remember....I will check my journal and see if I can figure it out. We also did acupuncture.

Now I have no idea how these will interact with high blood pressure meds so you will need to research that carefully. Other things to consider are:
1. Making sure your dog is not over weight since that puts such stress on the joints
2. Exercise of some form, may just be walking or swimming is great (we did rehab at a place that had a pool) is important once you are over the acute phase
3. Steps: if you have steps in your home or have a vehicle that is off the ground, ramps arfe helpful. We built several ramps out of wood and old carpet to help my rott.

bdbull

My main concern with the supplements is overdosing or giving supplements that should not be given with her existing meds.  We are scheduled to see her internal medicine specialist this week and will try to get an appointment with a vet who can give us more info concerning her hips.

Tell us what specific meds the dog is on first of all -- and just like with humans, high blood pressure medicine is not without its own side effects. 

I would *definitely* have bloodwork sent to Dr. Jean Dodds at Hemopet ( http://www.hemopet.com ) for thyroid and SHE will consult with your vets (and I'd copy **everyone** on the results) -- she will do a breed-specific thyroid test, plus just go ahead and have the whole panel done - it's only like $20 more.  Then let her discuss with the other vets about the thyroid results.  Hyperthyroid and hypertension AND The kidneys are all soooooo very related and when you get a vet who is a specialist in *one* of those the others can be overlooked, particularly if no one has done breed-specific thyroid testing.  If the thyroid is high but isn't being caught, then treating the thyroid can diminish the need for the hypertension meds.

Adequan and Cosequin are both really good meds -- they are literally the pharmaceutical version of glucosamine/chondroitin but are highly refined.  But at the same time, the fact that they are pharmaceutical can also put a ceiling on how "much" can be given safely.

If it were me I'd have the dog on Knox NutraJoint -- it's not a pain med, nor is it g/c - it is simply gelatin (bovine cartilage) and calcium which will help the body rebuild some of the cartilage that has been lost to the process of deterioration.

I also doubt that the hips were worsened in a 3 hour period.  It was likely an event that simply injured already failing tissue.  But I would tell you the BEST initial help for that is going to be acupuncture.  That's only constructive -- it helps healing, and it can seriously help the high blood pressure. 

The University of Florida at Gainesville TEACHES acupuncture and Chinese herbals and that link I gave you is one your vet may want to explore.  If they look at the faculty of the Chi Institute, they are going to find names they recognize, like Dr. Roger Clemmons (who is known all over the world for his work on Wobblers and DM, and neurosurgery).  But those vets deliberately make themselves available to other vets for help in cases like this.

But I'd start with the thyroid testing -- if the thyroid isn't functioning it throws everything in the body off -- and just a regular blood panel ... even a thyroid one ... is NOT going to catch most borderline stuff.  But "borderline" hyperthyroid would be a big huge deal and it might increase quality of life enormously for your dog.

I will ask the specialist about thyroid testing.  My guess is that it was tested back when we discovered her high blood pressure.  She was acting very strange and we ran through about $3k worth of tests before we actually figured out what was going on.

I will gather up her meds and post what she's currently on later today.  I just don't have them in front of me right now.

I'm sorry for not better explaining the 3 hour period thing.  The vet said something probably happened to injure her hip which is making it worse.  He likened it to me having a bad shoulder.  If I decide to throw baseball with my son one day, it's going to be a few days before the pain and swelling go away and my should returns to its normal condition.

Also, just so everyone knows what I believe are some pertinent details, the vet we see is our normal vet, but the specialist is down at Georgia Veterinary Specialists (http://gvsvet.com/).  They are the ones that did all the tests and discovered her blood pressure issue.  I'm hoping to get an appointment with someone down there who can give me more details on her hips and help setup any meds/supplements that would help her and not interfere with her existing meds.

And just as an FYI, she appears to be favoring her leg a little less today.

Thank you for all the help and info so far

Dr. Jean Dodds was the head of the endocrine dept. at Michigan State -- she set up *their* lab (which still uses breed-specific thyroid testing) and now she's gone even further since she's retired and set up Hemopet (which is a national blood registry for dogs/donor source for blood).  She's gaining even wider recogtion now b/c of her work in auto-immune stuff.

They should know who she is -- and given the relationship between hypertension and hyperthyroid there should be no question of checking that -- and honestly?  In this day and age sometimes it is incumbent on the owner to ASK for things (particularly when there is a strong thread of logic).  Vets often do what they routinely do -- and sending off blood to Hemopet may not be "typical" but it's certainly not bad.  Just make sure to do the test on a Monday or Tuesday because it has to be overnighted to Hemopet in California (and you don't want the blood sitting overlong after processing)

I have a cocker (Billy) that we did FOUR bloodscreenings on for thyroid because everything about his skin problems screamed "thyroid" but it kept coming back in "normal" range (not really even borderline).  But wow -- once we did the breed-specific tests (and we used Michigan first) HOLY NELLIE -- he was ***LOW*** in a big way, and frankly needed substantial supplementing to get it up IN normal range.

My regular vet became completely convinced and often sends bloodwork to her now.  Add to that the fact that she's SO great about working with the vets (and even emailing owners).

 have you ever heard of adequan? it is an amazing drug. we actually use it on our horses and it greatly improves their performance. i am also starting my 11/2 year old aussie on it, we recently discovered he has elbow dysplasia. but from what i know about it, it is pretty low risk but tends to have good results. the only down side is it is an injection and you must do a loading dose(2 shots a week for 4 weeks). after the loading dose it is only once a month. our vet tells us that you give 2mg per each pound of body weight for dogs. if you are ok with giving shots yourself, it can be purchased online(entirelypets.com) for a lot cheaper than at the vet, but you need a perscription from the vet.

Time got away from me yesterday, but here are her current meds.

Amlodipine (generic for Norvasc): 10mg a day in morning; blood pressure

Enalipril : 7.5mg a day at night; blood pressure

Deramaxx: 37.5mg a day; anti inflammatory

Tramadol: 25mg twice a day; pain

The Deramaxx and Tramadol were given for this specific incident with her hip.  The Amlodipine and Enalipril are her reguarl blood pressure meds.

bdbull

Time got away from me yesterday, but here are her current meds.

Amlodipine (generic for Norvasc): 10mg a day in morning; blood pressure

Enalipril : 7.5mg a day at night; blood pressure

Deramaxx: 37.5mg a day; anti inflammatory

Tramadol: 25mg twice a day; pain

The Deramaxx and Tramadol were given for this specific incident with her hip.  The Amlodipine and Enalipril are her reguarl blood pressure meds.

You mean Enalapril right?  That's typically given for heart problems but sometimes in high blood pressure.  My source is the Pill Book Guide for Medication for Your Dog and Cat (1998, Dell Reference) for the Enalapril.  Again the Pill Book cautions checking the kidneys -- if the blood pressure goes TOO low then blood doesn't circulate properly and that's hard on the kidneys -- The NSAID (the Deramaxx) is going to potentially decrease the effectiveness of the Enalapril.

 The Amlodipine is hard on the liver as is Deramaxx -- I would be giving milk thistle (quite a lot of it) to protect the liver while the dog is on these drugs.  If you'd feel better about it have the vet give Marin and Denosyl (those are a pharmaceutical grade of milk thistle and Sam-e).  Sam-e in particular is going to help the arthritis as well.

this dog is taking a TON of heavy-hitting heart drugs -- so be cautious about over the counter stuff just because it's too hard to monitor side-effects.  A human can say "gee, I feel light headed" but a dog won't -- they'll lie down or stagger and maybe you won't notice.  That means be extremely careful of herbs as well - the milk thistle is benign and won't hurt any of the above, but in particular don't try to add herbs for arthritis pain -- you could well cause problems. (and I use a LOT of herbals -- this is an educated caution ok??  just be careful)

I'd ask the vet about using something as a relaxant.  again -- I"m not going to tell you an herbal - I'd MUCH rather you'd consult a holistic vet if you really want to use supplements, etc -- they're going to be knowledgeable about potential interactions and will have their hands ON the dog to see what's going on.

Honestly, I'd steer you to topical essential oils -- like wintergreen and/or peppermint to massage on the sore joints.  They can help marvelously without clashing with anything taken internally.  Just use a real essential oil -- not a food flavoring.  Get them at a health store.  A really good quality peppermint oil is a treasure.