Pregnant, no - false pregnancy - NO Miscarriage!!! UPDATED 7/21

    • Gold Top Dog

    Pregnant, no - false pregnancy - NO Miscarriage!!! UPDATED 7/21

     When they say breeding is not for the faint of heart, they mean it! Oh what a ride it has been, and it keeps going downhill. What really sucks is I have tried to do everything right, and nothing has come out like it should!

    When Piper came in 2 months early from being around another bitch in heat, I wasn't sure that breeding her would be a good thing. I should have listened to my gut! With all the family drama going on, I managed to get her to the vet and get her checked, vaccines updated and the brucellosis test done  - and then to get her to the stud! We get one tie on day 11 and I'm wondering for the first 4 weeks, did we get anything? I sat on my hands and waited for her to show me that she was pregnant, but the whole time I'm treating her like she is - just in case, you know.

    Day 42 I feel a puppy move, and it seems like overnight she is finally showing! I let myself breathe a happy sigh and started getting the whelping box and supplies set up. Day 56 and the x-ray shows nothing. Disappointed didn't even touch what I felt. Vet says false pregnancy and I tell the little miss she gets to go back on strict rations. Piper gave me dirty looks!

    Day 59, late day 59, Piper starts having a very large amount of caramel colored, molasses thick discharge. Panic - oh yeah! A late night call to her breeder and yes we can wait till the morning for the vet. Good thing, as I'm not home and the vet at my parents is 45 minutes away. Not good! But, no temperature, she's eating and acts like she feels fine. I can't sleep and wake Piper up more than she likes!

    Next morning I'm at the vet as soon as I can get there. 4 hours later I leave knowing she was pregnant and lost the litter and that I may still have to have her spayed though we avoided it that morning. Pyometra was everyone's fear. Palpation revealed a slightly enlarged uterus. Blood work shows Piper's white blood cell count to be normal, but the vaginal smear shows lots of cellular debris, some white blood cells, and lots of bacteria. Vet knows I want to keep her intact if possible for showing, and God help me, another chance at a litter from her. So, she gets an antibiotic douche that he calls a chemical d and c, and antibiotics for home. If she's still having a discharge in 7-10 days, she goes back for another douche if needed. Spaying is the other option lurking in the background.

    The past few days have been stressful because I'm watching her like a hawk - she's eating and drinking fine; not happy to have her temp taken a couple times a day or being allowed out to play with the other girls; and definitely not happy having to stay in her crate due to the discharge. I'm a worry wart by nature. I tried really hard not to worry over her being pregnant and whelping without problems - lot of good that did me! Now I'm just worried that she's going to be okay and I'm not making things worse for her! Loving my girl and not wanting to worry about her being sick and wanting a litter out of her are at war with each other!

    Recent research has me scared to death that the vet didn't do right by not giving her something to make her uterus contract and expel the rest of the decayed fetus. Monday is the earliest I can get her in to a vet, but which vet? The one I went to on Wednesday doesn't like to be challenged, and if he knew about prostaglandins, surely he would have done that! And the expert in the field is in Ohio and I'm ready to call and try to get a phone consult! I might try a Beaumont vet that did some of Keela's OFA stuff for me in hopes that she's more up to snuff. Not knowing what is the best thing to do is making me sick. I try to trust my vets, but I keep getting let down by their lack of new techniques.

    I just want Piper to be okay.

    Breeding - yeah, not for the faint of heart.

    My heart - rather faint right now.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I think that even owning an intact bitch is scary enough, without even putting the pregnancy, not pregnancy, miscarriage on top of it!

     

    I hope that your Piper is ok, and that she does what needs to be done, and doesn't have to be spayed. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Amy, I am so sorry about Piper.  What a nightmare.  I don't know what Vet to steer you toward but I would be nervous in your shoes too after what you have gone through, are still going through, I should say.  Sending you and Piper tons of healing vibes and hoping she doesn't require spaying.  I know you only want her to be ok at this point. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Wow, you have been thru quite a time with this. I'm a worrier too and I know I wouldn't have handled it as well as you have. I'd be driving myself trying to figure out what to do next too. I hope the answers become clearer and you can find a vet that will put your mind at ease. (((HUGS)))

    • Gold Top Dog

    man...just reading this and I am so very sorry. I hope that you can get her well, regardless of her breedability or not...and she is sound and hale and hearty again soon.

    If it makes you feel any better I do know bitches that have resorbed, partially resorbed, or miscarried and gone on to have normal pregnancies right afterwards. PM me if you need anything and do check out that forum I linked you to...they all have been there it seems and are a great source of support and advice.

    All will be well, just keep thinking that and it will be.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Oh Amy, I'm so sorry.

    If you are looking for a repro specialist, you might want to look towards Dr. Kampschmidt at Brittmoore Animal Hospital in Houston.  I know of a handful of breeders here who have traveled to see him & have been very happy with their decision to do so.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Well, I tried for a second opinion after reading about the new prostaglandin protocol that causes uterine evacuation - it's a medical option over a surgical option for treating uterine infections and pyometra. I knew my vet locally wouldn't be open to the suggestion, so I headed to Beaumont to a vet that I knew to be breeder friendly.

    When I called, she didn't have an opening till next Monday. I asked about doing a walk-in and they said yes. So, I was there after lunch, only to find out she wasn't there today (nice to be told *grimace*). The vet I did see only wanted to spay her. The ultrasound showed fluid in her uterus. He scoped her and said the cervix is open with lots of pus coming out. Well, he didn't do a cytology to determine if it was pus, he just based it on color. He kept calling it pyometra even though she doesn't fit any of the clinical signs: no temp, no foul odor, no lethargy, no vomiting, etc. She does have a vulvular discharge and the color today was cream instead of brown like yesterday. I told him it had been switching between the two, but he didn't want to hear it. I got the stink eye because I bred her anyway. Since I didn't see a puppy and she hadn't delivered anything, then she couldn't be in postpartum discharge. He just kept pushing the spay. When I asked about the lutalyse protocol, he said we use oxytocin, but when I pushed him about it, he said you can't use oxy after the first 48 hrs. When I asked again for the lutalyse, he hemmed and hawed and refused. Said she wasn't a candidate because she had been having the discharge to long even though she is stable and the cervix is open. Kept trying to scare me about how the cervix could snap shut and the pus would make her septic, etc. Which is all possible, but there are other options than a spay.

    I had also spent the weekend researching off of college vet sites about the new prostaglandin protocol and how it is being used to treat open cervix metritis and pyometra. When I asked for a copy of his findings from the ultrasound and the exam (which he hurt her palpating her uterus, he was rough), all I got was a print out on pyometra and how to prep her for surgery.

    Needless to say, I was mad and upset and ready to scream. I called a friend and she contacted Brittmoore hospital in Houston for me. We are headed there tomorrow morning for an afternoon appointment with Dr. Kampschmidt. If he says she needs spaying, then I will trust he is looking out for her best interest and not just being spay happy. He's in the top of the reproductive field.

    I tried a local vet first because the protocol requires a series of shots over several days. I'm still at my parent's house helping my mom. She can manage at home by herself now, but she can't drive. Me being in Houston for several days is going to be difficult on her, but I'm at the point I don't have an option if I want to keep Piper intact.

    I'm having a hard enough time dealing with Piper being sick without having a doctor try to scare me into a spay. I have her best interest at heart. If I thought for a second that she was in danger, I would have her at the vet so fast my head would spin. I've wrestled with spaying her or trying to keep her intact for showing and a chance at a litter. It has really hurt that my dream dog, the one I have always wanted a puppy out of, is in this situation. I love her like nothing else and this isn't easy. I should have just called Brittmoore this morning and tried to get in with them to begin with. They stopped my friend in her tracks when she was describing the situation and said I needed to get in there for another opinion - they knew about the protocol without her having to say anything. 

    I know a lot of people are against breeding for various reasons, but I'm writing this so others will know that even when you do everything right, things go wrong. The dog that you love ends up in danger. Having to make the decision to spay her and give up your dreams because of a decision you make is beyond hard. Having to decide to fight for her and your dreams is even harder when you are faced with vets who are resistant to breeding and don't want to use new protocols that have a proven track record from the top reproductive vets in the nation.

    I'll try to keep y'all updated about tomorrow, but I know it's going to be tough the next few days. If Piper does undergo the shots, please keep her in your prayers. And trust me, she will be spayed if I even think she is in danger. This evening, she was acting like a puppy and wanting to take on my brother's bull in the pasture. Silly Min Pin!

    And, if none of this makes sense, my brain is beyond tired and running ninety miles an hour trying to get stuff done before I head out tomorrow.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I'm so glad that Brittmoore is getting you in!  At least this way, you know that you are getting an expert's opinion.  Fingers crossed that they can get Piper back on track without having to spay.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Gina, thank you for that board. They are the ones that pointed me to the prostaglandin protocol. If I hadn't found out about that, I have a feeling I would have been spaying her this week. Hoping that Brittmoore has some good news for us!

    Thanks again for your help!

    Amy

    • Gold Top Dog
    Having been there myself a few times, no breeding is not for the faint of heart and I gave it up after a few years (along with showing in conformation). I hope she gets all healed up and returns to showing and giving you a litter. I have a friend in lowchen who had a gorgeous bitch, finished, specialed. Gorgeous. So she lined up a great male, bred her and a very similar situation happened, just like your girl. They went through antibiotics, etc, got her all cleared up. She came into season again and the vet ok'd her for a breeding. Same thing again and they ended up having her spayed, as the second time she became very sick with pyo. Trying not to be a downer or anything, these things can happen. Best of luck and I hope she feels better soon!
    • Gold Top Dog

     Well, we made it to Houston. The rainstorms where rather nasty and dangerous a few times, but we are here. So, the vet visit. Dr. Kampschmidt is very nice. They do everything right there in the room with you - which I really like. I'm so tired that I can't remember now whether he said for certain that she had pyometra, but it is definitely an uterine infection and the walls of her uterus are thick. Though her uterus is not as big, nor as full of 'pus', as the doctor yesterday said it was. Actually, very little 'pus' was in her uterus, but we do need to get her uterine walls back to normal. They mentioned the prostaglandin protocol right away, but we have to do a litter next heat. That's not a problem. I'll probably do a surgical AI with her age anyway. They can visualize her uterus as well during the procedure to make sure she can even carry to term.

    Onto the shots, he wants to do 2 a day for 5 days. I could leave her there or bring her back and forth twice a day for the next 5 days. After running the cost of board and shots vs shots and driving, they come out to the same. I opted to leave her there since they can watch her for side effects though it killed me to do so. Thankfully the tech absolutely loves Min Pins and promised to love on her lots. I can go visit her too, so hopefully I can deal with being without all of my babies. Thankfully my friend has Pins that I can love on. :)

    They did the first shot while I was there and she didn't have that bad of a reaction to it. I hope the next ones are as easy on her. There is always the possibility that I may have to have her spayed if the shots don't work. We'll see how it goes, and I get to pick her up Saturday unless he feels like she needs the 5th day of shots on Sunday.

    I miss my girl so much, but I'm so thankful she is in the hands of a good repro vet. I'll let everyone know how things are come Saturday evening.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

     Poor little girl! I hope she does really well, with this, and comes out healthy and happy.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Amy, how is your girl doing?