Random Symptoms - UPDATE last post

VET a.s.a.p. -- There are a few of these symptoms that just don't feel right.   Could be next to nothing - could be serious.

The vomiting is scarey -- off food when he's a chowhound?  SOMETHING is wrong.  Get bloodwork done literally as soon as possible. 

If he's peeing and pooping it's not likely a blockage, BUT it could be something more severe like an infection or kidney/liver toxicity as a result of the toad or bird incidents (and that could become more severe with less chance of good treatment if you let it go at all).

The dead bird -- was it chewed up or just 'dead' -- I'd wonder about toxins.  Anyone fertilized (even a neighbor) recently?  Or sprayed bug spray -- ANYTHING toxic at all (even if we don't *think* of it as toxic -- can BE toxic).  Both Billy and Tink reacted REALLY badly to that new roof we had put on last fall -- and just licking grass that has been exposed to over-spray can be bad).

The ear stuff?  Could indicate pain or it could indicate an ear problem -- but a good vet exam is surely your next thing to do.  The snarkiness again could simply be feeling unwell (even TEETH can cause all these symptoms -- not being able to eat, abscess that causes pressure on sinuses or eustacian tubes can cause ear problems, and it can surely cause general malaise.

boredpuppy08

Edit: forgot to add he's been lethargic and his gums are pale...

I would have my dog in yesterday just on these two things alone.  As for where they'd start, personally I'd want blood work done immediately but that's the vets job to decide what's needed. 

I don't want to seem harsh but this has been going on way too long and he needs to be seen regardless of what it is or isn't.

I should have went to the vet with my mom and Brutus, she just got back and the vet did blow it off he wormed Brutus and my mom came home with pills for the rest of the dogs. As per vet's instructions we're to wait till friday morning and see if there's any improvement even though the stool sample was free of any parasites. The vet advised against bloodwork.... Is it the vet's job to decide what a dog needs or doesn't need? Our vet won't do any thing till he sees obvious signs of illness such as the dog presents as almost dead(I hate my parents chosen dog vet).

We had rain, then a cold snap so the bird was just 'dead' probably sometime last night or this morning it was one of the fledgelings that's been hanging around the yard. Had another look and I don't think the dogs had found it yet. I'm almost positive none of the neighbors have been spraying and nothing new is in the house other than the new pool but this started before that...

I am very worried, I going to be keeping a very close eye on him for the next two days or how ever long is needed. Checked his ears and I check all the dogs teeth regularly what with Rupert's being a constant problem and Brutus is not even 2 yet - his teeth are still perfect and totally without tartar, no obvious ear infection or funky smell. I think his earset probably changed because he's not feeling well but I won't discount something like an ear infection/hidden tooth problem or something. If there's not an improvement I'll go to the vet and make sure blood work and everything possible is done for the pup. I might go take his temperature and see.

Thanks.

Did the vet say his gums were OK?  I can't imagine having a dog with pale gums and not getting blood work to see where they are at. 

As far as if it's the vets job to decide, yes it is.  But, in my experience my vet will make her suggestions, give her opinion as to whether she thinks something is necessary or not and then humor me if I still want to go ahead and do blood work, or whatever.

Mom said the doctor said that the gums could be caused by being wormy and his not wanting to eat because he felt bad such as from low bloodsugar and we should take him home and feed him something(he got mc'donalds hamburger patties which he did eat a few minutes ago). I get that that's the simplest cause of what could be going on - easy fix, something the vet would want to discount first and foremost so his recommendation was to wait and see, my mom trusts that sort of attitude but I think it's a bit misplaced in this case. My mom's not the type to push for bloodwork for various reasons and she'll take no for an answer, I suggested it before she left and she says she did bring it up. I would have insisted, I should have gone he probably would have done it had I insisted. He just obviously doesn't like it when I make 'suggestions' that require more than he has so far done or feels like doing... I don't feel like airing dirty laundry right now.

 I hope it's just worms and that he feels better very soon, but I agree that bloodwork should have been done, as well as a thorough examination. I'll keep Brutus in my thoughts; let us know what happens.

boredpuppy08

He's been coughing, he and all our dogs are vaccinated for kennel cough so that shouldn't be the reason

"Kennel cough" is a generic term like "the flu".  Vaccines only cover 3 of the 8+ causes of kennel cough.

boredpuppy08

he wormed Brutus and my mom came home with pills for the rest of the dogs.

What wormer did the vet use?  DIfferent worms require different wormers. 

Sounds like a deep ear infection to me. Those are PAINFUL - which could cause the spiral of things. I would do a full blood panel and have the vet really take a close look at the ears.

janet_rose

boredpuppy08

he wormed Brutus and my mom came home with pills for the rest of the dogs.

What wormer did the vet use?  DIfferent worms require different wormers. 

I'm not sure, none of the dogs have passed worms last night or today.

Brutus isn't better, maybe very slightly worse. Didn't eat again, won't take treats, lethargic. We can add excessive drinking and a fever to his list of symptoms. He's going back today at 4:30pm it was the only appointment they had, I'd have prefered to take him in this morning... My mom agrees bloodwork is needed. I'll update when we get back. Thanks for the support guys.

UDATE: Back from vet trip #2. Pulled blood for a cbc/full panel and the results should be back after 1pm tomorrow, in the meantime the vet supsects a kidney/bladder problem or possibly distemper. Brutus has a temp of 104.2 which explains his sickly behavior. Something is definitely going on. We got cipro pills and already gave him one.

boredpuppy08

I should have went to the vet with my mom and Brutus, she just got back and the vet did blow it off he wormed Brutus and my mom came home with pills for the rest of the dogs. As per vet's instructions we're to wait till friday morning and see if there's any improvement even though the stool sample was free of any parasites. The vet advised against bloodwork.... Is it the vet's job to decide what a dog needs or doesn't need? Our vet won't do any thing till he sees obvious signs of illness such as the dog presents as almost dead(I hate my parents chosen dog vet).

I want to address what you've said here specifically because your observations and concern are well-founded.  This is one of those cases where YOU were ***RIGHT*** and the vet was very very very wrong. 

There comes a point (and this is really hard when you're young, working, and "mom and dad take over" -- but learning to be your dog's advocate is a big huge frigging deal!  And this is where you will likely have to "buck city hall" and either make the sacrifice of missing school or work to go WITH the dog to the vet (despite the fact and your parents may say "We can take him easier -- you need to be in work/school/whatever" and you say "Yeah, but if I don't go I won't get to tell the vet what *I* think and he's MY dog".

That can make you darned unpopular with your folks and with the vet. 

"advised against bloodwork" -- WTH??  No -- the vet said "Probably not necessary" ... and then YOU say "You know ... when you add the nausea and the other un-Brutuslike behaviors and the RISK of something like IMHA I'd a whole lot rather take the bloodwork NOW and we'll **KNOW** so I'll pay for it.  Please do bloodwork **NOW**."

It will only take once or twice of YOU being right (when you go with your gut) and the vet of being WRONG for the vet to listen to you next time.  You have to be very careful not to alienate the vet.  So you can't just tell them they're being a horse's patoot.  But you CAN say something like "Gosh, you know I see what you mean that it could be just parasites but honestly?  For him not to eat and for his gums to be SO pale I'm gonna sleep easier if I know more.  I don't mean to be a pain and maybe I read too much, but pretty please will you humor me and take some bloodwork?  Even just pull a packed cell now and maybe some elementary liver/kidney values in house??  I'd really appreciate it."

Because quite honestly they can **die** from parasites.  I lost a dog to hooks and whips about 10 years ago and I didn't find it until it was too darned late.  And by the time they treated him he died during the treatment. 

 But it's hard when you're "young" (sometimes it seems like a curse, I know, but it's not!) and everyone is condescending like you're wanting to spend too much money, blah blah ... but the bottom line is YOU know him best.  And with all the dogs I've had over the last 37 years I think the toughest lesson that I've had to learn over and over is when to say to the vet in a nice but firm tone of voice "You know -- I know him pretty well, and I can see what you're saying but frankly it just doesn't make sense with what I know of him and my gut is telling me it's MORE.  Please do this ___________ test."

Some vets can get downright owly about being challenged .. but you're the one who's gonna have to pick up the pieces if something foul happens to Brutus. 

So far you've been right on the money -- YOU were worried, YOU knew the vet didn't do enough ... walk on with some confidence here.  You're big challenge is learning to say it in a way that isn't disrespectful and won't get you in a ton of trouble. 

And by the way -- if you need to vent, email me.  I understand ... truly I do.

calliecritturs

It will only take once or twice of YOU being right (when you go with your gut) and the vet of being WRONG for the vet to listen to you next time.  You have to be very careful not to alienate the vet.  So you can't just tell them they're being a horse's patoot.  But you CAN say something like "Gosh, you know I see what you mean that it could be just parasites but honestly?  For him not to eat and for his gums to be SO pale I'm gonna sleep easier if I know more.  I don't mean to be a pain and maybe I read too much, but pretty please will you humor me and take some bloodwork?  Even just pull a packed cell now and maybe some elementary liver/kidney values in house??  I'd really appreciate it."

Agree completely!  And, I think a good vet will humor you and also respect your pro active approach.  My vet tells me she feels like she walks a fine line, too many tests and she's preceived as trying to get money out of people, not enough and she doesn't know what she's doing. . communication is HUGE!

GREAT NEWS - Brutus seems to have a kidney infection, not a blockage or anything too bad. He's already improved. I spent the whole night up with him cleaning up, he threw up repeatedly from about 5 yesterday to 7 this morning and really wasn't feeling well but at about 9 this morning his fever broke and has remained normall all day and today at 1 he ate 1/3 cup of boiled hamburger and rice and has actually kept it down. It's almost time for another antibiotic tablet - baytril is what he's getting. He looked like a depressed dog but today he's full of vinegar and barking at the neighbors, obviously feels much better.

Thanks again for the well wishes and advice.