AIHA or IMHA

  Wendi Beauseau 12.00 Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

Great story Johnny and Tessa about money, they are our kids and I would do anything for them!

Great information calliecritturs, thanks you for taking the time to post it. We do see a specialist vet. We went to my vet initially and see immediately sent of to the emergency vet center. We see an Internal Specialist. Although we do often have blood work checked at my local vet.....no decisions are made without talking to the specialist. The specialist has a "soft spot" for Calypso so she has been doing phone consults. Then we take Calypso up to the specialist just as a visit and she "looks" her over for free. It helps that my vet was a intern under the specialist. They were so great at helping us find ways to save money with this whole mess.

The antibiotics were prescribed by the animal shelter, sulfa and doxy is the combo that they give to any shelter dog that has kennel cough....so I never even thought to mention it to my vet. We immediately discontinued both drugs once Calypso got sick. 

Yes we were told no more vaccinations, by my vet as well as the specialist. We were told that we have to get a rabies titer yearly so that we can get her dog license. I have not asked yet what we will do if the titer is low. We may just be a rebel as far as she goes and not do the license. We have 3 acres so she is not around other dogs or people, plus we will never take her to any dog parks due to her disease. I will have to ask if Ohio accepts a waiver. We think this is her third round of vaccinations. She was adopted out at the pound as a puppy and got a full round, but because she came back in they vaccinated her....totally stupid!

So when do they usually start checking liver panel? The vet mentioned it, but did not say when we would start.

Now for prednisone side effects……of course Calypso thinks she is starving, which I totally understand, but how much do you feed them? She is 35lbs and we increased her food intake to 2 cups twice a day….do you all do more or less?

Thanks Wendi

cerberusdog

Great story Johnny and Tessa about money, they are our kids and I would do anything for them!

Oh, yes...when Pirate was sick I spent an obscene amount of money. I'm still paying for a LOT of it, on Care Credit. I think the receptionists were always surprised when I would bring up classes or college...I look pretty young and I AM pretty young, LOL, so I think it threw them a little bit that I dropped so much money. I ate LOTS of PB and J, ramens, and spaghetti.

Can you split her meals into more? I fed Pirate 4-ish times a day when he was on pred, or else he was eating non-food objects :) I would try a Kong or another food-dispensing toy also so that you could occupy her a little longer. Try adding water, too, it helps with the whole 'desperate thirst' thing and fills their belly too.

cerberusdog

Now for prednisone side effects……of course Calypso thinks she is starving, which I totally understand, but how much do you feed them? She is 35lbs and we increased her food intake to 2 cups twice a day….do you all do more or less?

I had asked the same thing to our vet when Willow was taking Prednisone.  And, she encouraged me to feed her the amounts I normally would but to divide them up over 4 or more meals.  I did divide the meals.  But, I did end up feeding her a little extra food.  But, really no matter how much you feed they are still going to feel like they are really hungry.  That's why my vet was trying to get me not to over feed her. 

I had so many meals going 4 and 5 times per day that I ended up starting to use paper plates because my dish washer was so full of dog bowls I had no room for our stuff!

Wendi,

I can't think of anything to add to what everyone has said.  I guess just keep reading the entire thread and then reread everything Callie said again.  If things get too expensive, the teaching hospital is a pretty good deal, or at least it was for me.  I will have to go back and read if you posted what part of the country you are from.

The weight issue is something that I have been struggling with.  I'm not very good at it to be honest.  She loves to eat and then when she was on the Pred she really was acting like she was starving.  At that point I was very glad she wanted to eat because when her HCT was down in the 9 and 10 range she didn't want to eat, in fact she was so close to death that I still have this feeling of awe that she is still alive.  

The teaching hospital wants me to get 10 pounds off of her.  If anything I've added to her weight.  I'm giving so much food just to get all the different pills and milk thistle down her, that its really difficult.  Still struggling even though she isn't on Pred.  But she's always been an eater.  My other dog Domingo is so skinny and is so self controlling on her food that you'd never know they were raised in the same house if you saw them side by side.

I wouldn't let the weight thing worry you right now, there is plenty of time to worry about that once she is safely out of the woods and you can start exercising and playing again.  And once you get off the Pred you'll have an easier time with it too.  

Good Luck with everything

Mike

Coopbay

This week he FINALLY started jumping back on the couch.

YAY, I was so excited when Willow started jumping on the couch and into the car again too!

 Val

 I know how long you were waiting for Coop to start jumping again.  So glad to hear he is jumping.  The not wanting to jump up on the couch or into a car really is something that many people have noticed with IMHA.  

 I remember Lori speaking about it a long time ago and of course you mentioning it. 

 What a good milestone you've reached with Coop.  I'm sure it will get better and better as you get him off the Pred.  

 Do you have any idea if they will try to get him off the Azathioprine after the Pred?  I know Dr Dodds likes to treat with Cyclosporine all by itself.  Not that I've heard anything bad about Aza but you know.. less drugs = less side effects.  I guess you can cross that bridge later.  When is his next CBC?

Mike

cerberusdog

Now for prednisone side effects……of course Calypso thinks she is starving, which I totally understand, but how much do you feed them? She is 35lbs and we increased her food intake to 2 cups twice a day….do you all do more or less?

I'm going to chime in here again (yeah, SURPRISE!! lol) -- it is SO unbelievably critical to keep them eating, to keep food in the stomach enough to help digest the meds, etc. to be really honest I didn't give a flying fig about his weight while he was on the steroids/steroid-like drugs.  NOW as soon as he was off them?  Then Mom-the-Tough kicked in and we got the weight off in pretty short order.

You may want to collect some "legal" snacks.  I use a cereal that has no wheat in it for my guys -- I also use Gerber Graduates dried fruit (little bits of apple, banana and strawberries) and they LOVE them.  You can flash fry liver and then as soon as cool dice it up small and then bake it at 200 degrees F (very very cool oven) for about 2 hours to make dried liver treats.  HiGH in iron and great for them.

I fed Billy TONS of beef heart - it's high in iron, low in fat and super digestible.  I added that to his regular food to increase iron and give him some more good protein.  It should be CHEAP - I cut it in cubes and saute it in olive oil.  Man they LOVE it and it's a great iron source.

Try stuffing a Kong with pureed veg and some hard stuff and then freeze -- makes them work for it but it IS something to 'eat'.

We did a full chem panel every month -- they began checking liver values right away.  And it's critical when taking both pred and cyclosporine.

 What form of cyclo are you using?  Gratefuldawg is the source for that one.  You can't just use ANY cyclosporine -- but make sure you aren't paying the long way for it either.

It's totally the norm for them to reduce the Prednisone slowly.  You don't want the body to notice.  It took Willow five months total to be completely off it. 

 Thank you Mike, willowchow, Val, sl2meg, calliecritturs for your support and help! I love reading all your stories it does really help! I am still slowl;y working my way through this zillion page thread

We do have a teaching hospital here in Columbus, Ohio....Ohio State University, but we also have MedVet; an emergency and specialist services. We chose to go to MedVet because we had heard good things about their internal specialist. Please let me know if any of you know any differently and think we should go to OSU instead. The doctor actually called this morning to check onCalypso and told me the plan was to check a CBC and Chem panel next Friday.

 I am calling around today to find Milk thistle so hope to get that started tonight.

I am using Atopica Cyclosporin. Calypso takes 75 mg twice a day which costs $200 for a 30 day supply. So I think that is the correct form from what I read and is it a good price Mike?

The *only* reason they rushed Billy off prednisone was because he was showing such signs of kidney distress with all the horrid infections and tons of drinking.  The preferred method with IMHA is **ALWAYS** to do everything slowly so the body just plain gets lulled into security -- they don't want the body to "miss* the drug and react to that loss.

HOWEVER -- Val (and anyone else reading this) -- the big deal as always that I'll make the point again

**WATCH YOUR DOG**  Just because they have indicated in the past that they want to wean off slowly -- IF THE DOG shows any signs of distress at all -- like increased infections, increased thirst or urination, or any of the classic IMHA signs (nausea, unsteady on their feet, pale gums) or any general "I don't feel good" clues **at all**  TELL THE VET NOW!!

They will throw all their plans on the trash heap and CHANGE things if the dog shows any inclination that something's not well tolerated. 

Honestly, I can't emphasize this often enough nor vocally enough -- these drugs are SO damaging to the body.  A dog can't say to us "ugh I don't feel good again today" -- and so watching all these little clues (like Billy's failure to wag his tail would send us racing to the vet! -- or the discussion above about NOW he can jump on the sofa) -- these little clues that tells US they aren't feeling well take on a whole new sense of importance to an IMHA dog -- because they don't have words to tell us, and dogs tend to be stoic anyway. 

So -- yes, the typical plan IS to decrease very slowly -- that *is* totally accepted procedure.  But that's where our job as guardians becomes critical -- if WE notice stuff, we need to tell the vet NOW.  Don't wait for that next visit.  Don't "wait and see" -- CALL THE VET. 

I'm not yelling at anyone here -- and this is one of those things we've repeated oftene in this 56 page "book" on here -- but it truly bears repeating. 

One of the points in having this long, drawn-out thread about IMHA is so that people who are lurking or just plain "looking for help" can see success stories like these, but also so that they are aware that yes, call the vet NOW ... react NOW ... don't let stuff go.  Cos this disease can turn everything on a dime!!

Val that's great news -- Cooper you rock, buddy!!!

I'm just the lady with the 3 year survivor here -- but you NEVER EVER get complacent with this disease.  David and I are **still** monitoring that tail every single day. 

 Wow so much information on this thread! You are all awesome! It woul dbe nice if we could put a "sticky note" at the begining of the thread with some of the important info like meds, supplements, what to do or not to do....if anyone is on Slickdeals...it is called a Wiki where anyone can post in it and update as stuff changes with new treatment

I'm hoping this is nothing but Tessy keeps going outside to pee but nothing seems to come out.  I just noticed this.  She seems to want to pee but nothing comes out.  I'm hoping and praying it's nothing but fear it might me something serious.  The vet isn't in tonight but I could call IF it was an emergency.  Any opinions/ideas?

Thanks,

Johnny & Tessy

Thank you, everyone, for all the information you've provided!!  I've been reading the posts every night for a week. My Frisby (a "pound hound" with some terrier and who knows what else) was recently diagnosed after several attempts to figure out what was going on. She had a fever that we could not get down, but her blood counts were OK initially. She's had tick diseases several times (Lyme and anaplasma) and the fever was initially attributed to anaplasma. Now, I'm fairly sure the anaplasma triggered the IMHA and we were trying to figure it out as it was developing. She was hospitalized three times and the third was the "charm"--a diagnosis after what seemed like a million tests. Our 4th trip to the hospital (because of an elevated temp again--of which I live in total fear now) about a week after her initial diagnosis of IMHA showed she had developed "slight" pneumonia and her red counts had gone down.(She's been as low as 14; this time it was 17.)  She received a second transfusion (two units of packed red blood cells), and the vets added azathiopranine and increased the prednisone slightly. We also had to add an antibiotic for the pnemonia. After 10 days, she seems to be responding, though her CBC after 3 days of the new regime didn't show it--her red count actually dropped. (The az seems to take up to 10 days to start working, so I didn't completely freak out--well, I did, but you get it.) We're off to the vet's on Thursday for chest x-rays and another CBC. Fingers crossed. (We live on an island that involves ferry boat travel to get to the vet's, the hospital, etc. It's an added complication, but we deal. The boat crew has been totally wonderful helping me get Frisby off the island when she went down hill so fast and needed to get to the hospital.) I also want to add the milk thistle and possibly the SAM-e. Does anyone know of any interactions/side effects with antibiotics?

Willowchow, we're in RI, too, and I would love to learn more about what you've learned about with the rabies vac. laws here (e.g. will a titer be accepted? etc.) . I haven't even started to research that yet.

Every day with Frisby feeling even a tiny bit better is a gift...that's for sure. We've had 3 good days in a row--yeah!

Hugs to all-you've all helped tremendously!

Kate and Frisby