What do you consider basic care - and why?

i think with vet care/preventative measures, it all depends. usually, when my vet wants me to give any type of preventative things, i first decline. then i come here and do other research to see if it is necessary. some things depend on your dog's lifestyle and your region. for example i dont use frontline or other fleakiller, because we do not go on nature tracks and i have yet to hear of any dogs getting fleas here in the city. so in this case the risks outweigh the benefits. i know what you mean about vets pushing certain things though. i feel the same (also about human doctors by the way). it sucks and finding one that u can trust is worth gold!

With heartworm, it depends on where you live and how high the risk is.  Parts of CA vets don't recommend regular use and only every other year testing.  Unless I lived in the deep south I wouldn't use heartworm meds year round because they ARE a toxin and I don't like to expose my dogs to more than is absolutely needed.

Fleas and ticks are everywhere, HERE, but I also don't use anything and my dogs are never bothered.  I think it's been four years since I've needed to ue anything.  I can't say why, but I think that their diet, and the healthy immune systems make them far less attractive to fleas and ticks, because we DO walk in the woods and never anything.  The fleas and ticks get ME, not the dogs.  Hmmmm, what does that say about MY immune system?

Basic needs to me are food, shelter (and not outside in a dog house) annual vet care and love.  Grooming of course.  My dogs go to the vet once a year for the HW draw, for their regular  blood work and to have titers pulled to make sure I don't need to vaccinate.  I'm in a 3 year state, so rabies isn't annual and other vacs I do myself but ONLY if the titers show they are needed, so far they haven't.  I don't use frontline because we don't need to, and believe me, with 6 german shepherds and three cats, I would not hesitate to use it if anyone were attractive to fleas, other than me.  HW meds, absolutely, but only during the warmer months.....like March to October generally.

I'm old enough, been around dogs for a lot of years and because I am a strong proponent in being our OWN health care advocates, I also research for my dogs.  After all, they are part of the family, and can't do their own research, so that's my job.

 healthiest diet I can afford, regular vet care, exercise, training, comfortable safe warm home, love and attention and grooming.

Re; preventative stuff. I am using flea and tick year round at the moment because my next door neighbor's dog has what looks like flea allergy dermatitis going on for months now, and I am neurotic that my dogs will pick something up and bring it in the house which is my idea of a grade A nightmare.

I do deworm monthly -- two months with Interceptor , third month with Safeguard. I do this because my dogs are out and about a lot, they eat all sorts of animal poop when around horses and sheep.

I really don't like toxins, but unfortunately would not be comfortable going longer between wormings/flea and tick stuff given their exposure at the moment.

boredpuppy08

in your opinion what's basic care as far as medical/preventative what have you for your animals and why, or why not?

I believe in preventative health care for dogs and humans comes in the form of good nutrition,low stress and regular exercise.I do not use flea products unless I see fleas which has been only several times in many years.I give minimal vaccines,only what I feel is important in my area and to each individual animal.I have never used heartworm preventative but my dogs are tested for it yearly.If memory serves Boredpuppy,your dogs are herding mixes?If you do decide to use Ivermectin you should do some research on the MDR1 gene.Many people use these products with seemingly no ill effects but I am cautious and feel that clever marketing has more to do with their popularity than necessity.

Tena

I'm in the South so heartworm preventive is a *must* for me, and I'm one who tends to advocate it all year round simply because when you just test you catch it AFTER.  If your dog **THEN** has to go thru heartworm treatment it is very very hard on the dog.  I'd rather prevent than treat for something that heinous and potentially create such a severe treatment.

However, I also only treat for fleas as needed -- when I see a flea then they get Frontline.  But I'm LOOKING for the fleas.

However, I think the issue is a bit deeper than that -- for example, a lot of folks use Revolution -- which supposedly treats both fleas *and* heartworm BUT not only does it fail way way too often, there is speculation in the veterinary community that it may actually be contributing to heartworm microfilaria being 'immune' to it.  Same thing with Heartguard.

Both have been dosed minimally because of dangerous side effects but then it can allow the microfilaria to actually *survive* the dosing which then creates super-microfilaria who are immune to those two drugs.

Further (and this is a place where those two drugs differ widely) I don't use anything that is systemic.  Revolution and the spot on chemicals that go thru the skin and stay in the body all month are dangerous in *my* opinion. 

First off, it makes no sense to me that they don't work until the flea or parasite BITES the dog -- it's the pesticide residing in the blood that is supposed to kill the parasite.  And preventing the problems that accompany the dog getting bitten?  Isn't that the point?

For me "basic care" is also about providing the best food I can afford -- for me it's home-cooking.  I prevent all sorts of allergy problems that way.  But simply avoiding foods that use BHA, BHT and ethoxyquin as preservatives (all 3 are carcinogens) is another 'basic' for me.

However --as you read back up thru everyone's responses you'll see a common thing -- we all determine basic care by our own frame of reference.  Now that the o.p. has experienced two dogs having to be TREATED for heartworm there's probably going to be a different standard of care.  We're all a product of what we've experienced.

 It depends on the dog, too. Emma doesn't tolerate HW preventative. It's something that I've just had to accept. Five days of cluster seizuring a month isn't really worth it, for me, so.... she's at high risk for contracting HW. If she gets them, it's already decided that she will not be treated, at least by conventional means. She wouldn't withstand the treatment.

Ena gets HW prev, every month. Different dog. She tolerates it, fine. She gets her milk thistle, with it. I am considering going to a natural treatment (HW nosodes and black walnut tincture) for both dogs. I only use flea stuff when we get an infestation (like once every three years). I use essential oils on them, year round, to make them not smell as good to fleas. 

As far as basic care, regular feeding, vet care, excersize, grooming, and socialization are right up there. Vet care varies by the dog. So does everything else, really.... My two get dramatically different levels and types of socialization. I ask people to pick up the puppy, and mess with her face. Emma would never put up with that. *shrugs*

calliecritturs

Now that the o.p. has experienced two dogs having to be TREATED for heartworm there's probably going to be a different standard of care.

Unless I misunderstand the original post Callie,Boredpuppy's dogs do not have heartworm.It is simply the first time they have been tested and the test was negative.

It is true that warmer climates have more mosquitos and thus higher rates of infected dogs.If I lived in one of these areas I would re-think my position on heartworm preventative.I often wonder.....people get parasites too.Why aren't children and adults on parasite preventatives?I believe it's because the companies that make them know they are not safe enough to be given routinely to humans.While heartworm is indeed very hard on an animal I believe the risk of a dog getting it is alot lower than the drug manufacturer would lead us to believe.Everyone does what they feel is best for their pets.Some may take the knowledge that I do not give heartworm preventative and and feel I am cheap or irresponseable.I am neither.I distrust drugs and chemicals and use them sparingly because I want my pets to live long healthy lives.

Tena

4HAND

Unless I misunderstand the original post Callie,Boredpuppy's dogs do not have heartworm.It is simply the first time they have been tested and the test was negative.

You're right -- I mis-read 'tested' for 'treated'.  Thanks.

4HAND

I often wonder.....people get parasites too.Why aren't children and adults on parasite preventatives?I believe it's because the companies that make them know they are not safe enough to be given routinely to humans

I'm absolutely no supporter of the drug companies  but I don't think it's *quite* as clear as increasing their sales.

1. We don't walk thru life barefoot -- and dog's do -- so if there are hooks or whips in the soil they ARE going to get them because that's how they are transmitted -- right thru the skin (and in any one of 999 other things they pick up off the ground and eat including poop of other species.  Not ME!! *smile*
2. I don't think they've ever found heartworm in humans -- there are other things we may get worse, but  so far, not that.  But even beyond that -- if you or I are in an area where there are mosquitos we're likely to take some sort of precaution against them 00 dogs don't.  And their skin isn't even sensitive  enought to know they HAVE been bitten  where we get a lovely little welt as proof.
3. Rather than believe the statistics the manufacturers may provide, you might check with your state's vet school to see what THEIR statistics are regarding heartworm, etc. 
4. About 10 years ago I lost a dog to hooks and whips.  He was older -- and honestly at that time I'd NEVER given any preventive for anything.  Mine are inside dogs and I don't let mosquitos multiplied outside.  Figured I was pretty safe.  But we took a dog as a foster during a hurricane.  The gal I did rescue with SWORE he was "safe' and had been vetted. 
              He wasn't.  And within two weeks Mike was dead.  Because he was elderly and had  a hisotry of some medical issues, the hooks and whips just TORE thru him.  I didn't even know he was infected.  But suddenly one day he literally collapsed coming in the house.  We took him to be treated and they thought his chances were good and he just plain slipped away.  In TWO weeks. 
              It changed how I feel about parasites generally --  simply because there are certain ones you can't see it coming. 
             AND, in the cae of heartworm, the treatment is SO bad.  It IS simply **poison**.  They ingest enough poison on several occasions to hopefully kill the heartworm but allow the body to pass them (think of a pound of cooked spaghetti mulched up and flowing IN the blood vessels thru the heart - that's what that dead parasite material is.

Generally, I hold the companies responsible for trying really hard to try to make money off this -- YES.  That's why they have reduced the "dose" of HeartGuard (which is ivermectin which DOES kill many types of herding dogs and a variety of other breeds) so it is marketable to ALL breeds -- but that miniscule dose dosen't do it's job. 

They keep trying to come out with bigger and stronger meds -- we don't even need to talk about Pro-Heart 6 (and Ft. Dodge is trying REAL hard to bring it back here, like they have many other countries), and this new Promeris is another horrible thing (in my opinion).

But one thing that WILL scare you is that it is a FACT that between 86% and 90% of ALL dogs that come thru the SPCA and Animal Control in Florida ARE **heartworm positive**.  They are adopted out that way.  Rescue groups down here have a terrible time trying to afford treatment.  No one WANTS a dog that is positive but treatment is VERY expensive and it's hard on the dog and it's difficult to do right.

It's not just the weather.  It's the fact that it got out of control.  It's the fact that a few dogs got it and it multiplied from there because until recently most people did *not* use preventive.   

So a lot of us down here talk about it a lot -- because if it hadn't gotten out of control HERE it wouldn't be going elsewhere.

And remember -- with climate controlled trucks now -- you will see mosquitos flying around in your Northern grocery stores!!  That load of tomato or other fruits/veggies that came up from Mexico or the South?  It's one of the ways these diseases are spreading.  So are the dogs brought from hurricane ravaged areas down here when they are taken north (and often by less-than-sterling rescues trying to make some money).

Like I said - it is actually a difficult and deep topic.

There's a middle road here -- I'm not trying to argue or get in anyone's face -- it's a DIFFICULT thing. 

Tough and very honest question!

So lets see,   once a year a work up, blood draw to check for , well everything I guess and yes that includes Heart worms.  I keep mine on a great diet , it changes up and down but primarily it involves keeping the hot carbs, corn, soy , wheat and rice out of their systems.  Supplementing with frozen chicken wings helps keep their teeth very clean and white. I vaccinate as a puppy and then only as required for travel. I do not re vaccinate every year for rabies even though our area demands it, I get the 3 year shot and make sure my dogs are never loose. ( When that neighbor's dog came into my yard and the fight happened it took a ton to sew my boy up - the other dog died. But I had them check his titers then to be safe.) When traveling in an area where there is an outbreak of something , say corona, I will vaccinate for that. But I am practically rabid about never allowing my fur kids to drink from strange water sources,  They do not stay out in Mosquito's, I put out citronella candles and use skin so soft on all of us. Ticks are always a worry and once a year I treat when we go to the Rodeo as the dogs will be running in the woods and pastures of a game reserve.

I take them by the vet 4 times a year just to say hi and weigh everyone.  My eye and the scale are rarely far apart but it keeps all of us on the same page.

I flea comb instead of using a flea preventative, I will use a drowning shampoo rather than a flea shampoo ( a heavy anti bacterial dish soap lathered very heavily for 6 minutes then a long rinse repeat in three days) if we end up in a flea infested area and yes traveling in an RV and to dog shows it happens, I opt for Adams spray over a spot one insecticide. Adams is rough but two treatments with your home/yard being carefully watched and it will knock out fleas quickly. I have too many dogs and kids to use the spot on type every month and I hate spraying the house or yard.  So killing the fleas and eggs, marathon begging washing and floor scrubbing and I am good to go without running the risk of the dogs and kids being over enveloped by chemicals

Ridgebacks are susceptible to lumps and bumps as they age, It is not uncommon for fatty tumors to appear from age 4 on.  I have them dosed with a benedryl shot and then a needle aspiration to rule out Mast cell.  If the lump is in an area that will cause discomfort I have it removed. If not it stays.

I do not have teeth cleaned, they seem to really get dirty fast on dogs who have it done regularly and   I do not want mine being put under for the procedure once a year.  When they must go under I use the fastest reversing gases, I am lucky my vet stays very current and that is reassuring to us.

hmm what else,  fecals at their once a year,  that is about it I think. I am more proactive than reactive when it comes to the dogs or grandkids.

We scoop religeously , dogs are never allowed out unattended, No standing water anywhere, buckets and blankets are kept clean and they are crated on a tile floor.  The carpets are kept as clean as possible, ( hey 6 dogs and 5 kids sigh...) Dogs are never loose outside the yard. I do nails a min of twice a month, more on the actively showing dogs.  Baths are maybe once a month or 45 days. RRs are short coated and do not stink.  They sleep in crates a couple of nights a week and are always crated when the kids eat or company is over. It keeps them cool with crating when traveling. I will not fly them. They are never boarded. I will not show at benched shows. And they have hands on everyday. A cuddle or play period, a training session or just a long nap if scheduling permits.

I have friends with giant and toy  breeds who spend WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than we do.  My dogs out live theirs, stay very mobile and alert and part of our lives.  One kennel has only 4 Irish Wolfhounds and 6 or 8 Border Terriers, The other is down to 4 mastiffs. Their vet bill is insane and the feed bill worse. I have never "gotten" it. Only one of the BTs has outlived my hounds and he is deaf as a door knob, his year younger girls are dealing with either Cushings or Demetia and are very nearly blind and deaf as well.  They are only one year older than my girl who passed from the tumor this year at 13.  I still remember them telling me in a patronizing way that it was too bad I was not a terrier person, since little dogs out live bigger dogs by yearS.   ah..... no . Mine were at the top of their games and were only allowed to cross because of the Hermangiopericytoma , a non genetic tumor that repeats and repeats or the liver cancer that popped up when Bo was 12.5 and took him from us in 2 weeks. Some things we can not protect them from.

Spend what you can.  On the things that make sense to YOU.  If you have questions ask them, but don't let anyone push you into more than you honestly feel right.  BTW in truly bad heart worm years I dose with IVERMECTRIN, a cattle Heartwormer at a tenth the cost. In 26 years in Alabama I have never have a dog come down with Heartworm, In 41 years as an owner I have never had a dog with them either and we were Navy living all over the country...never heard of them before Alabama.

Bonita of Bwana

Bonita of Bwana

One final thing and I had forgotten it until I was reading the other's posts... I NEVER EVER allow anything made by Fort Dodge to be used on my animals, My bet has it in HUGE red letters on each file .... He knows I will sue his butt to perdition and back if he ever uses this horrible company's products. I will not support them in any way. I know of dogs and puppies who have died after using their vaccines.  Any company that  routinally settles out of court with gag orders is not a company I am willing to use.

Bonita of Bwana

 For me, basic care for my dogs involves:

• monthly heart worm preventative (when I volunteered at the shelter sometimes half the dogs or more were HW+)
• annual wellness exam
• fecal float every 6-12 months (required by my training facility but I often have them done if a dog gets diarrhea)
• bordetella every 6 months (required by boarding and training facilities)
• 3 year combo and rabies
• annual heart worm test
  

I also use a flea/tick topical but not as religiously as HW preventative.

I will admit, I'm pretty trusting of my vets.  I picked my vet based on many recommendations from others (and since several people have switched over to them as well).  My dogs do not have any allergies or immune system issues so I'm lucky that I don't have to be super careful about their vaccines and medicines.

ETA:  I only mentioned vet stuff!  Besides that, I choose between 4 or 5 star kibbles, no corn, wheat, soy, or glutens in their foods, bucket of water available at all times except when crated, chew toys always available to satiate chewing, extra chew things for the pup who is teething, nail trims by me, grooming by me (I trim Coke myself, brush all three dogs as needed, and bath as needed using a self-serve wash at that pet store that includes a high velocity dryer).  Coke I check for hot spots and Kenya I check for ear infections.  I don't brush teeth but haven't really needed to.  I'd pay for a dental if it was needed.  I also give a probiotic after a round of antibiotics.

The very basic for me : food in appropriate quantities, fresh water, heartworm prevention (year long), flea prevention (I've decided to stretch it on during the winter months), regular vet exams with fecal, heartworm test, titer or vaccines as necessary, special attention to keeping them cool and not letting them overheat in summer (living where I do I fear the heat more than our "cold" for them), regular brushing to keep the hair/skin in good shape, regular palpation (body, legs, feet, etc) and ear inspection. Since they sleep outside on most nights, a well equipped kennel (concrete floor, roof, deck, raised dog house).

My dogs are inside- outside dogs.

So, vet care, holistic food, cooked meat, non chlorinated water, heartworm prevention purchased at the local feed and seed store, shots by me other than rabies, flea treatment every 2 months ( haven't seen a flea yet), baths if necessary, clipping of nails if necessary, chronic medicine dispension, brushing and keeping kennels and living area spotless, training and loads of love and exercise. 

Thank you, you've all given me a lot to think about.

What are titers, how much do they cost, and what does that involve? I ask because the min pins always have reactions to vaccinations and end up with bumps for months after their shots so for them maybe that would be a good option but it's not something I have expierence with.

I agree with a good diet being the best prevention. Our dogs aren't on a good diet currently 4 out of 5 are fat and two have terrible skin and smell are itchy and I'm seriously looking into a diet change for them but I'm still a few months away from figuring out what might work for us. Plus, its a confusing topic. I see how it ties into good dental health though - I now understand what an important role dental health plays in overall health and just general quality of life for a dog(and person) but it's sort of a chicken and egg senario. What makes good dental health? Is it chew toys that keep teh teeth clean and a good diet, genetics, daily brushing and twice a year dental cleanings? Rupert has horrible teeth, his sister has much better teeth yet gets teh same diet and treatment, but the young min pins have perfect teeth and how do I keep them that way so that when they're his age they have teeth as good as they do now?

I'm 20 and Rupert is the first dog I grew up with and that I've actually seen become 'old' and go through all these things, I'd like to get to the head of the learning curve if I can for him and the other dogs...