Accidental litters...

    • Gold Top Dog

    in this case it doesn't matter if the bitch was proven or not- the pups aren't purebred. They won't be registered, if they turn out "flawed" the kennel name/line won't be tarnished. Sounds like they might make lovely hunting dogs for folks who don't care they aren't purebred. One of my dogs is an "accident": the stud broke out of a very solid crate and went through a wall. The breeders never even considered not-having the pups.

    • Gold Top Dog

    mudpuppy
    The breeders never even considered not-having the pups

    Good for them making that personal choice.

    • Gold Top Dog

    rwbeagles

    Regarding the mismating shot, I am shocked that so many here are recommending it. All I have ever heard of it was horror stories of bitches failing to ever come into heat again or having irregular cycles and having planned breedings not being able to take.

    This is not, to me...horror...this is a reality of breeding dogs. Bitches can have ALL the above occur, without the mismate shot. This was no blooming virgin bitch but one that had produced a nice litter beforehand...IOW you already had something from her to carry forward with. So if she never conceived again...what have you actually lost one litter? two? Money? Ribbons?

     

         No, it's human made reality. I am well aware dog breeding is not for the faint of heart. Mummified pups, stillborns, pups born with insides on the outside, cleft palate, bitches dying, pyometra. Removing viable pups from the uterus isn't part of nature's way, and has nothing to do with normal dog breeding. Again I brought up the aversion some have to culling because there is no difference between letting a bitch whelp her pups then drowning them or throwing them in the trash than it is to take them out of the uterus and let them die that way. Culling is done for mercy reasons in almost every case and the pups are usually euthe'd quickly to prevent suffering. Aborted, they are removed from the uterus and do suffer. They are puppies, inside the uterus or outside the body after being delivered.

         The problem is that even though I am not an advocate of breeding mixes (just to clarify, I realize this was an oops!) but at the same time once they're here (i.e. bitch is bred and is part way along) because they cannot carry on a new generation or be titled or don't have health certs is not the issue.

         What is lost is not ribbons but lives.

    • Gold Top Dog

    One final post on this then I will abandon the topic as it seems to be spriraling into a no one wins arguement. 

    My family philosophy is simple do everything possible to eliminate the risk of an unwanted result.  There is no way I would ever send a bitch out with a handler if she was remotely due to come in season. My handler has clear instructions, daily contact and updates. ANY changes and entries are scrapped and the girl returned to me, even if I have to drive to their location to pick her up.  A handler is taking on a bailment for hire which requires a HIGH level of care.  She was not babysitting as a friend she was HIRED to care for and show my dog.  Because the level of care is a high one we treat the relationship the same way. Giving the handler the respect she has earned .  So in this scenario there were several  mistakes made, and at least one obvious one was by the owner. Sending a dog out to show who was due to come back in to season.

    Life is hard enough on dogs.  Some choices we make are painfully difficult and we are not supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about them. If they were not so hard it would be easy for the mistake to happen again.

    That's it for me gang.

    Bonita of Bwana

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sending a dog out to show who was due to come back in to season.

    And I disagree.  I don't know any handlers....least of which GSD handlers/owners/breeders, that would take back their bitch or not send her out simply because she was due to come in season.

    The breeder should aprise the handler that the bitch is due to come in to season, yes, but to pull entries and send her back?

    There are bitches in season at EVERY show I go to....

    • Gold Top Dog

    HoundMusic

    Removing viable pups from the uterus isn't part of nature's way, and has nothing to do with normal dog breeding.

    I completely agree.

    • Gold Top Dog

     

    Keeping dogs as pets isn't nature's way. Feeding them on a schedule, out of a bowl isn't nature's way. Teaching them to walk on a leash isn't nature's way. Selecting who breeds to who isn't nature's way.

     

    What we humans impose on dogs as our pets has NOTHING to do with nature.  They do not live a natural life, so that isn't really a very viable argument for or against anything. If Ena were accidentally bred to a dog of another breed that was a compatible size, I'd probably spay her. It doesn't really matter, though. I'm spay happy. That has nothing to do with what's "right" or  what anybody else should or will do.