A backyard breeder right?

I wouldn't call someone a BYB based on just holding pups back, but if the dogs that were bred were not titled or health screened and there was not a definite purpose for matching that male with that female, then I would say she's a BYB (albeit she sounds like one with good intentions if she keeps good track of the dogs). 

It sounds like she was/is a caring and concerned breeder.  A couple of questions did she have the appropriate health screening done on both the dame and sire?  Did she check the temperament of of the parents?  If so IMHO she may have been a BYB but she was also a responsible and caring breeder.  Over the years I have gotten my best dogs from that type of breeder! 

 Mark

kle1986

Lillie came from a litter of 15. The breeder kept all 15 pups till they were 4 months old and had all their shots. She had all of them in her home where she crate trained them,house broke them, and had them socialized pretty well I have to say. They were leashes trained and well mannered as far as 4 month old pups go. The breeder and I have kept in contact since I got Lillie. She had kept a sister of Lillie's and has spayed the mom and sister.

Even though she did all the above she is/was a backyard breeder right?

     I don't see any BYB qualities here. Honestly, no one who is a casual breeder is going to be keeping back an entire litter of pups until 4 months. A breeder will do that not just fo rthe shots but to evaluate how the litter turns out. On that note, when I talk to my puppy people, I do give them updates on the littermates, sire, dam - but I don't usually go through the whole rigamarole of laying out my breeding goals or keeping certain pups to see if they remained balanced or showed enough brains, etc. with them, unless specifically asked. No BYB is going to go through the trouble of raising pups that long, and doing a great job of it, too. They are concerned with getting the money and getting the pups gone. Maybe it's just me but don't see why spaying the mom & sister would be a big deal. She might not have liked what the litter produced.
     If you're happy with the pup, and she's healthy, well tempered & the breeder isn't a fly by night person who still keeps in contact with you, I do not understand why you'd consider her a BYB?

 I wouldn't think so... She had a litter of 15 puppies, waited until they were 4 months to give them away, she even trained them... A backyard breeder would probably sell them when they would turn 6 or 7 weeks, he/she wouldn't give any effort in training them...

A BYB very probably wouldn't keep in contact with you - they only want to make some money as fast as possible. And it is a known fact that dogs from the BYB's have big health issues and sometimes don't even look like the breed they should be... (At least it's the case where I live)

I think your breeder is just fine. And more than that!

As for getting the mom and sister spayed, a BYB wouldn't do that as long as they can have litters on which he/she can make profit... 

the facts you provide aren't relevant as to whether she's an ethical breeder or not. What is important is WHY she bred the litter in the first place. Lot of highly unethical breeders really care about their dogs and puppies they are just not well informed, are breeding for all the wrong reasons, and aren't doing their breed any favors by breeding.

I was just asking if Lillie was a BYB. After reading on here for a year and learning what people considered was a BYB I started rethinking Lillie's breeder. I thought she was a BYB.

She did breed for the wrong reasons and she will readily admit it. Lillie's mom is the woman's first Irish Setter and she really loves that dog. So she bred her to get a pup. Her grandkids are doing 4H with Lillie's sister. She wasnt breeding for money so since then she has spayed the mom and sister. No she didnt have no health test done on the mom. She didnt own the dad but all he had was a DNA.

I sent her an update telling her that Lillie and I are attending conformation classes. She was happy and said she cant wait to see her in a show.

There is no hard-and-fast definition of what constitutes a BYB or an ethical breeder.

I wouldn't consider your dog's breeder a BYB at all, but then all I know is what you've posted.  I'm kind of curious why YOU think she's a BYB.  I'm assuming there's something you left out that leads you to that conclusion?

 Because her dog doesnt have any titles or health testing done. I thought if you breed just to get a pup you was considered a BYB even if you did care for the pups better than others.

There is such a huge spectrum of BYB's, she may technically fall into that category because of no health testing, but there are much worse out there. It sounds like she did alot of things right and one or two things wrong....it also sounds like she figured that out already since she had her girls spayed.

Ripley came from the same type of breeder, she does agility with her dogs, but doesn't show, and his parents are not health tested...I thought they were at the time, but after being on dog forums I figured out that health testing isn't the same as having the vet tell you your dog is healthy and can be bred...but she did the same things right that Lillies breeder did right, except that she has bred before and continues to breed. Would I get another pup from her, probably not, because health testing is important to me now.

kle1986

 Because her dog doesnt have any titles or health testing done. I thought if you breed just to get a pup you was considered a BYB even if you did care for the pups better than others.

We were posting at the same time, so I didn't see your post explaining it before I posted.

FWIW, I agree with 2shelties.

I was told by an irish setter rescue group that Dub's breeder is a puppy mill because she breeds more than 30 pups a year. 

She has been a setter breeder for 30 years, family business.  Daughter and now dead husband worked with her.  She also breeds English Pointers.  Anyway, I asked the breeder flat out are you having problems with this.  She said she has threatened the rescue group for coming on her property and they have bothered her for years.  That the local authorities have never cited her and that the do-gooders are always bothering the breeders in wisconsin for everything.  I wasn't sure what to think.  I know that I have met many people online who have gotten her dogs and are happy.  And many repeat buyers. 

When I asked the rescue group how many dogs they have gotten from her because they said we wouldn't have a setter rescue if not for her.  They sheepishly replied, well we have had two recently.  I kept one and my daughter kept the other because they were such nice dogs!

I do not regret that I got Dublin from her.  Other very well known irish setter, champion setters have this bloodline and I feel they would know better than I do. 

Oh also she had cooked a nice meat/rice meal for our puppy for his flight to us.  He came in perfect condition with dew claws removed and shots, first worming etc.  BYB or mills don't do that.  She called us at the airport to be sure he arrived safely and on time.  And has been available to us for questions.  I just in my heart felt it was okay to get him.  Lillie is beautiful.  Don't worry about it. 

What's wrong with being a backyard breeder? What is wrong with breeding for profit if you have healthy dogs? If you have the puppies in your home, and you give them excellent care and socialization, there shouldn't be a problem. Few people care about conformation or working titles. Most people get a dog to be a pet. I'm tired of the BYB bashing. There are many of us out there. We supply a need. There are not enough purebreed puppies from your "approved" sources to fulfill the pet market. If a backyard breeders puppies are healthy and well placed they shouldn't be looked down on.

Given the sheer amount of genetic issues the breed has...not health testing the dogs was something that is MINIMUM...she didn't. I would not recommend her or buy from her,...I see no reason to support someone who does not at least do the bare minimum to keep the breed as a whole from sinking further. If she kept 15 pups for 4 mos she could have well afforded an OFA xray thyroid screen and CERF clearance for her bitch. She also should have known enough to discuss those with YOU and every puppy buyer and recommend they also test their pups and keep her in the loop on the results.

15 pups is A LOT to add to the population of the IS in the world for what amount to "I wanted a puppy out of my girl to spay and keep". I also see she did not require YOU to spay your girl which is another minimum thing any breeder should be doing. 15 potentially INTACT, IS's out there on full reg's? Yeah...that's irresponsible. It's bigger than her...it's also those pups out there...what is going on with them? are the people that have them...also going to do just ONE litter? Where does it end??

louiereck

If a backyard breeders puppies are healthy and well placed they shouldn't be looked down

I don't "look down" on puppies...just people who see them as income. They, the pups and dogs, are innocents.