Willow's platelets are low!

    • Gold Top Dog

     I sent you a PM Lori.

    This is wonderful news!!

     

    • Gold Top Dog
    willowchow

    She's eating all her meals, leaving nothing in the bowl for me to put away and bring out next time.Surprise  I've read about this in books but I've never actually had it happen. . .

    Er, yeah. Pirate ate like a PIG on pred. Including things I didn't think were edible, like a large pink pencil eraser, and my wooden TV table. :)

    • Gold Top Dog

    How long did Pirate have to be on it before they started to taper it off?

    • Gold Top Dog
    Oh lordy...from the end of August until at least the end of November, maybe into December. BUT I'm not sure how similar immune-mediated disorders are, so it might be different for Willow.
    • Gold Top Dog

    This is really good news.  I was put on pred with first diagnosed with RA, but I didn't stay on it long.  Got off it as soon as I could after learning about all the side effects it could have.  But it times it is a life saver and has to be used.

    • Gold Top Dog

    sl2crmeg
    Oh lordy...from the end of August until at least the end of November, maybe into December.

    Yeah, she's going to be on it for awhile too. 

    • Gold Top Dog
    willowchow

    sl2crmeg
    Oh lordy...from the end of August until at least the end of November, maybe into December.

    Yeah, she's going to be on it for awhile too. 

    When her tummy can handle it, then, I'd certainly talk to your vet about a joint supplement and milk thistle. I was surprised how much Pirate aged while he was on it in terms of joint issues. He sprained his 'wrist' in the front by just *walking* down a sidewalk, because his connective tissue was so weak!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Geeze, that's unreal.  I'm going to start her on something once she's done with the pills becasue she's got right now 8 pills a day.  And, I've been giving her a Pepsid too to avoid any issues--not sure it will but it makes me feel better--at least I'm trying. 

    How did Pirate act on it?  She seems tired??  She rests, gets up to drink, we take her out--she can't tolerate much exercise she starts panting.  Not that she could in this weather to begin with but it's even less now.  This morning she had just come in and pee'd a little in the kitchen.  I don't think she's even realizing it's happening because she didn't squat or anything, I just turned around and there it was. 

    I'm going to rearrange the house to make things a little different to fit more water and her bed so she can stay in here when we can't be with her--no carpet. 

    • Gold Top Dog
    The Knox Nutra Joint that Callie talked about is really great stuff, for joints, and it's a powder. Pirate didn't seem to even taste it.

    If you're worried at all about her behavior, I would call your vet :) :) :) WITH THAT SAID:

    One of Pirate's initial symptoms was lethargy, so it was kind of hard to tell if the pred made that better or worse. He did pant a lot - I think that's generally a side effect of the pred. He wasn't allowed to go *anywhere* (his white blood cells were knocked out too, so he was at a mega-high risk to catch anything - I carried him in the vet's office, I was so paranoid!!) so he really couldn't exercise.

    Yep, get used to the pee. Pirate literally couldn't hold it - when I was home I set a timer to take him out every 15 minutes. When I wasn't I eventually put a rubber-backed bath mat over his 'spot' so that I could just wash it at night. If you can I'd put something waterproof over her bed, and then cover that with old blankets or something. Pirate would leak pee in his sleep, and that way I didn't have to wash the whole bed, I could just wash the covering.

    Pred isn't a fun experience, but it was necessary. I hope Willow continues to get better!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Oh, no I'm not worried about her, she's doing fine.  They gave me a list of stuff to look for and take her in if I see. 

    I do have another Pred question.  Did Pirate get worse with the peeing as he was on it longer or was he like that pretty much from the beginning. 

    'm just trying to get an idea of if she might get worse or stay this way. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sometimes I wish I wasn't such a danged expert on pred -- and not just from the dogs, but from ME taking it. 

    Pred *can* have a myriad of side effects -- it's VERY individual ... unbelievably so.  It can make you moody as heck, it can make you hurt just enough that you don't want to DO anything or it can give you the zoomies.  But because it can make you moody if you are lethargic or zoomie just plain DON'T TELL ME I DON'T WANNA HEAR IT!!

    *grin* (yep, both me and dogs -- seen it lots of times)

    Mostly pred just plain messes with muscles.  In essence it can make your muscles just plain NOT do what you tell them to do.  You may think you gotta pee so bad you're gonna die -- and you CAN'T.  You try -- and you just can't.  You walk in the house (or out of the bathroom) and wet! 

    It's just plain that the muscles don't always DO what you tell them to -- I've experienced this personally so much it's not funny. 

    Pred makes you thirsty and it gives you the munchies.  But then you can also get UTIs on it -- *easy*.  That was Billy's big bugaboo while taking pred and cyclosporine -- pred is hard on the kidneys big time. AND cyclosporine has, as one of its side effects, UTIs.  *sigh*  So it hit him hard.

    So since Willow's got UTI/kidney issues -- watch that like a hawk.  Let her drink all she needs -- and you might need to give her wee pads or whatever SHE is comfy with in the house.  You might even think about getting her bitches britches and putting human continence pads in them -- if she's easily freaked because she's having accidents and is bothered by it -- it can be easier than a dog who gets upset over having the accidents (does that make sense?)

    She'll still want to go out and you don't want to break housetraining -- but you may want to give her some protection so she doesn't get upset because she's soiled something.  Make sense? 

    But that's one of the big reasons for using the milk thistle -- and honestly, while the dose is so high of the pred -- this is when you *need* to protect the kidneys and liver.  The milk thistle just helps protect those organs and flush out the toxins.  It won't diminish the effectiveness of the pred.

    And pills?  Lori -- I'll be honest with you -- Billy as a healthy boy now **still** takes more than 8 pills and many tea pills a day -- some for his heart (L-carnitine, taurine, Co-Q 10, hawthorne) all on the vet's say so, plus tea pills per the other vet.  8 pills a day would seem like *nothing* to me. 

    The milk thistle can be done just as a ground herb (no capsules) -- mixed into anything from yogurt to tahini or babyfood. 

    I introduced Megan to the wonderful world of "7 day pill caddys".  Rather than trying to deal with a ton of bottles to do meds - you get a few of those 7 day pill caddys at Wal-Mart.  Just count out those meds in advance and label one A/M and one P/M.   No sorting and dealing with bottles when you're trying to feed her and stay sane.  It makes it SO much easier (and you don't forget any pills tha way!!)

    or this one:

    There are zillions of them at Wal-Mart, Walgreens or the grocery store.  It's also way easier to know if you've given them all today.  *sigh* (Old Timer's Disease??)

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thanks Callie.  The amount of pills really isn't so much the issue as we don't want to introduce anything new because it could cause an IBS flare up which would be a huge PITA right now. 

    LOL, I'm contemplating see if she'll learn to use a litter box.  I know a few chows that do, LOL, I'd have to get pictures!

    ADDED-Do they ever prescribe something like that stuff, what's it called, Proin??, for incontinence while on Pred??  Or, they can't??

    • Gold Top Dog
    I don't think they give Proin for pred, but I never asked. I think Pirate got worse to a point, but then as they decreased the dosage he improved.
    • Gold Top Dog

    sl2crmeg
    Pirate would leak pee in his sleep

    She's doing that tonight.  Sad 

    EDITED-Oops, she didn't!  I thought she had but she didn't.  YAY.

    • Gold Top Dog

    No -- they can't prescribe Proin for pred use -- they both have separate side effects first off. 

    Part of it is that they are just drinking SO much  ... and it's **so critical** for them TO drink so the body rinses out.  It's a defense mechanism for the body to try to mitigate the damage from the pred to the kidneys. 

    The other part of it is the "muscle thing".  I know that sounded strange but truly it IS what happens with pred -- certain muscles are more apt to have problems than others, and bladder control muscles (probably because they are close to the kidneys but that's *my* assumption) are prime targets.  They just have too much water TO hold it and part of it is that it's not just 'holding' it -- but that the muscles won't obey the body's command TO relax so they can go when they want to and NOT go when they don't want to.  The muscles tend to just spasm ... period. 

    Honestly, Lori -- she may not know "when" it will let loose -- she may not have enough control TO use a litter box.  There will be times when she *does* have control and times when she just plain does *not*.