yelping

    • Bronze

    yelping

    for a while now my 5 pound chihuahua has startled easily and occasionally yelps because of it. (and as i posted in a different topic, seems to be having issues with potty training - but this seems to be a behavioral problem) but for the past 3 days or so she has been yelping more often. now she has been doing it when i pick her up or pet her and sometimes it seems at times she yelps for no reason - when no one is even near her. after she yelps she tucks her tail and acts like she's afraid of me. she isn't displaying any other strange behaviors and seems to be completely fine other than the yelping. she is eating fine, pooping and peeing fine, and running around and playing with my other chihuahua fine. i've touched her all over to find the source of her pain, but i haven't been able to find anything at all. the only thing that i've noticed is that her eyes are a little bit puffy, but this happens a few times each summer. it seems to be an allergy problem. anyone have any ideas as to what could be wrong? i'm wondering if all of those 'startled' yelps in the past were actually 'pain' yelps and i'm worried that something is really wrong with her... she went to the vet recently and he said she is one of the healthiest chi's he's ever seen -- but this was before the yelping increased. tomorrow i'll call the vet to make another appointment but i need some advice in the meantime.
    • Gold Top Dog

     You can give her Benedryll for the puffy eyes, if they're caused by an allergy. I wouldn't give her anything, right now, though. I'd wait til after I talked to the vet about it.

    • Gold Top Dog

    ohiochis
    i've touched her all over to find the source of her pain, but i haven't been able to find anything at all.

    This is just a WAG (wild ass guess), but have her checked for a luxating patella (knee cap that slips).  If it slips and then pops back into place, it can hurt and get sore.  Just touching the knee might not hurt her. 

    Movement of the knee could be a different story.  Don't try that yourself.  The vet will know how to manipulate the knee and you don't want to make things worse if that is the problem. 

    See my posts (the four with a tag of "luxating patellas";) on this thread about luxating patellas:
    http://community.dog.com/forums/p/65379/513067.aspx#513067

    • Gold Top Dog

    If your vet isn't finding it on palpatation then I'd probably try a different vet who does 'different' things.  A really good holistic vet (particularly one who does acupuncture) will give a completely different *kind* of physical evaluation.  Usually they'll spend upwards of 90 minutes with you and the dog (and the initial consult will also include treatment).

    dogs are stoic -- they will often not 'react' when a vet palpates them -- so looking for other clues can be a big help.  I'm not advocating you 'leaving' your regular vet -- ***not at all***.  But a vet trained in TCVM (traditional Chinese veterinary medicine) will be looking at everything from any hot/cold spots near joints, pulse points over the entire body, the colors of the tongue and various mucus membranes, as well as general behavior and reactions. 

    Such problems can so easily be neural -- the slightest turn of the head can sometimes cause a 'ping' in a nerve, or such and that can be impossible for the vet to find in their exam. 

    A good TCVM vet is going to work with your regular vet.  http://www.tcvm.com is the Chi Institute and they're a really good qualifying agency for acupuncture/herbalists -- have your vet either send or give you a copy of the dog's records and then ask the TCVM vet to send a copy of their findings to your vet. 

    Maybe your vet will pooh pooh it all but keeping them in the loop is responsible on your part and then they don't get ratty with you about it. 

    It can totally depend on the *type* of experience your vet has ... and sometimes supplementing this experience with another vet's experience who does something totally different can help finding difficult problems.  A dog doesn't just 'yelp' for no reason and I'd be about 99% sure this isn't behavioral. 

    • Bronze
    yep, i gave her some benadryl the other day for her puffy eye but it doesnt seem to be getting better... i'm not giving her anymore of it, though, until she goes to the vet. i thought about luxating patellas. but i'm pretty sure that isnt it. my other chi had problems w/ her knees so i know what it looks like. plus, the vet checked her knees at her last exam and he said they were fine... if after her vet appointment he still can't find anything, i'll definitely look into a holistic vet. i agree that this doesn't seem to be behavioral. it's breaking my heart to see the way she's acting.... i'm afraid to pick her up and i've been being SUPER gentle when i pet her because i'm so afraid that i'll hurt her. i think a dog yelping is pretty much the worst sound ever. i wish i could localize where her pain is but that doesn't seem to be possible. the other day i had both of my hands behind her ears, petting here there, and she yelped. and then today i was petting her back, down below her ribs, toward her butt and she yelped. ughhhh.... it's strange that she acts so normal when she plays with my other chi... thanks for all your help.
    • Bronze
    now i'm wondering if her anal glands are full and are causing her discomfort. she has been doing some butt surfing today.... is it possible that it would hurt to be picked up if her glands are full? or infected even?
    • Gold Top Dog

    Infected would cause pain -- how much roughage do you give her.  If you are feeding one of those 'high quality' high protein diets, there may not be enough roughage there to keep the anal glands clean and if they are infected it can actually rupture.

    However, it also sounds like an ear ache -- no matter where you are 'petting' if she moves her head to see what you're doing it may hurt.  An ear ache can be very difficult to find if it's bacterial -- many times a vet will assume if there is no wax or discharge that they're ok but the pain can be deep -- all the way to the ear drum. 

    does she yelp ever when she eats?

    It's such a helpless feeling when you can't figure out what's wrong!  good luck!

    • Bronze
    i'm feeding her canidae. she never yelps when she eats.... she eats really well - always gobbles up her food when i put it down. i looked at her ears and didn't see anything but like you said, it could be a deeper problem than i can see. i just rubbed her ears really well and she made no noises... but then i was petting/rubbing her back/sides and it seemed that her rib area is what caused her to yelp this time. immediately afterwards she moved away from me and put her ears back. then she was afraid to come near me. if she had a bruised rib or something like that i would imagine she'd be in pain more often than just when i touch her, right? this is awful!!
    • Gold Top Dog

    There's really no telling -- and it so depends on the vet as to how well they pick up on pain.  Particularly in small dogs.

    Deep ear pain is *tough* to find.  If you DO see a reaction usually it is behind the ears and down a bit (the ear canal goes straight 'in' but abruptly curves "down" a very long way and then bends 'in' again to the eardrum.  The eustascian tubes follow all the way down into the throat. 

    The best way to 'tell' is to sniff (and vets never do that) -- a yeast ear infection smells different than bacteria - but they both have a pretty singular smell.  But you won't pick up on a deep bacteria infection just by handling the external ear or the cartilage around the ear flaps.  IF there is pain from touch, it will be further down and often is triggered by movement.

    There IS pain there -- she's telling you that just by the way she draws back.  But I wouldn't keep prodding her.  You could potentially do more harm than good.  But I would take her to a different type of vet as soon as you can get in. 

    It's not silly to worry.  You're doing all the right things.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Ohiochis - what you're describing is very similar to what Rascal will do. We finally figured out that he has a bit of arthritis in one of the lower vertebrae in his neck such that when he moves in particular ways and extends the vertebrae the little bone "spur" hits another vertebra and causes him pain. The vet was able to diagnose this from an x-ray we had taken of him at the e-vet when we were looking for something he'd swallowed! So, if you have any old x-rays of your dog, it wouldn't hurt to have the vet give them a once-over.

    Another thing you can do is keep a "yelp diary" and keep track of every time you see the dog yelp and what exactly the dog was doing. The vet also told us to note the weather that day as well, because apparently arthritis can be weather-sensitive and if you know the barometric pressure is going to change you can give some pain relievers beforehand to take the edge off.

    I would be extra careful of your dog's neck, since little dogs can be very susceptible to neck injuries, particularly if they've ever been walked on a collar or (heaven forbid) choke chain. If your dog keeps yelping and you can't figure out any causes, it probably wouldn't hurt (except on the wallet, heh) to have the vet take a couple of x-rays to check for neck problems or, as Janet suggested, luxating patellas. 

    • Bronze
    izzie went to the vet today and he examined her very closely but he could not find any place on her body that was sensitive. she didn't yelp once the entire time. he said that the only thing he can think of is that nerves under small dogs' arms are very sensitive and when we pick her up we could be pinching a nerve under her armpit(s). he said we need to pick her up differently and avoid holding her under her arms.... but it still doesnt explain why she yelps when i touch her on different parts of her body -- like back on her back near her stomach. he emptied her anal glands but they were not infected. i'm hoping this makes things better for her. grrr... it's so frustrating.... she yelped just a minute ago and i did not even touch her. she ran across my lap and yelped and as one of her paws hit my leg. and then she looked at me like i did something to her!
    • Gold Top Dog

    I really recommend X-rays. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    I agree with Cita -- either x-rays at the very least or the completely different type of exam a TCVM/holistic vet would give in addition.  Some dogs are just SO stoic they won't let a vet know they hurt.

    Specific case in point.  I took my little Prissy (pom/peke mix) because I knew she was hurting.  The vet put her thru a whole 'range of motion' and *I* could see she hurt and I said something.  He said "SHE DID NOT FEEL PAIN".  I said I knew her and I could see it.  He flat out looked at me and said "she did NOT yelp".

    I told him I knew my dog and I could tell SHE knew he hurt her but she wasn't comfortable enough with HIM to let him **see** her pain.  She would NOT yelp in front of him no matter how badly she hurt! 

    I never went back to him.  But I learned something that day -- a dog might feel comfortable enough with *me* to let me know they hurt.  BUT that same dog might not let a vet SEE their pain because they didn't want to show weakness to someone they didn't trust.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I also should have elaborated earlier - I'll share some of the scenarios when Rascal yelps, and what we've finally figured out is why.

    1) Putting on his harness. I go to buckle it around his middle, he turns his head because he's kind of suspicious and wants to see what I'm doing, he extends his neck too far and it hurts, so he yelps. I now put his harness on while gently holding his head forward so he can't turn his neck.

    2) Playing with his toys. He would leap in the air to "attack" them, extend his neck all the way out/down, and hurt himself. After 3 weeks or so of being convinced his squeakies were out to get him, he learned to run quickly up to the toys, pause briefly to pick them up gently, and then run away again.

    3) Picking him up. Again, he turns his head to see what I'm doing with my hands (kind of to say, "Watch what you're doing back there!";), turns his neck too far, and hurts himself. I now pick him up while gently holding his head forward.

    4) Taking a treat. He reaches his neck up high to get a treat held above his head, over-extends his neck, and hurts himself. He now gets treats only from his level or from on the ground.

    Without the X-rays, honestly I think it would have been nearly impossible to figure out why he was yelping in some situations and not others (e.g. yelping while taking a treat, but not yelping while eating his food). By figuring out exactly what was causing him pain we've been much better able to manage him such that he doesn't hurt himself as often (e.g. holding his head gently to keep his neck straight).

    The "mystery" pain has also triggered a lot of behavioral issues, such as intense suspicion on Rascal's part, because he doesn't realize it's his neck hurting him and he attributes the pain to other people/things. Preventing the pain is absolutely key to getting him over these fears. (For example, he's terrified of people petting him behind his neck because when he turns his neck to lick their hands or what have you, it hurts him, and he thinks that petting --> neck turning --> pain --> suspicion of petting --> more neck turning --> more pain, etc. The only way to break the cycle is to make sure that he doesn't experience pain while being petted.)

    So anyway, long story short, having X-Rays really made a huge difference in understanding Rascal's pain issues and what to do about them.

    A dog that yelps with anything approaching regularity (IMO once a week or more) most definitely has something wrong. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Any updates?